Superhero Movies

[nacho]

Expanding on our endless conversation, RC (in this thread and the Spider-Man thread), about the downfall of the superhero genre, here's an interesting article on Doctor Who's current problems:

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/10030/doctor-who-has-not-run-out-of-gas-but-the-engine-is-stalling.html

The conclusions, I think, are spot on -- and something I've complained about throughout NuWho's era... It's the same problem as superhero movies. The world always has to end (or be in that sort of danger) and saved magically in the final reel, occasionally after hard to swallow mega-destruction has occurred.

Hell, we could lump our Star Trek discussion in here (and tie it all together with my thoughts that the superhero genre is more than caped crusaders and has actually infected every other genre and, therefore, will always survive).

Classic Who used to be about a wanderer, a fugitive, a powerful alien who stumbled into stories and was really just trying to get out of them. He was motivated, probably 60% of the time, by escape. He'd lost the TARDIS, or become separated from it, and all he wanted to do was get out of dodge.

The rest of the time, his curiosity would get the better of him...and he'd often regret it.

But the "lonely god" era that NuWho brought in changes all of that. The Doctor now becomes detective. Driven beyond reason to involve himself in problems and solve them/save everyone. When his regular enemies are encountered, he must fight them to save the very fabric of the universe itself...

In classic Who, let's take the Daleks... In all the Doctor's encounters, he only fought them on a large scale three times. The rest of the time the Daleks in question were basically a lost patrol, or some outpost, or some random encounter. Still scary, but the scary element was the monster, not the threat that the monster posed.

Anyway... Putting this in the superhero thread since it sort of dovetails with that whole conversation. Sorry.

[RottingCorpse]

That's okay because I think your point about superhero movies at large infecting the rest of fantasy storytelling is a valid one.

What you're saying about Doctor Who fits perfectly with that thesis. Not everybody needs to be a reluctant hero, but its seems the crux of classic Who's character is, "Hey, I've got this time travel ship that I'm probably not supposed to have, but man, could I explore the shit out of time and space with it. However, I better lay low and try not to get noticed by the time travel cops while exploring." When he saves shit it seems to be mostly born out of self-preservation.

But maybe that's not even the point. The problem as I see it is that everything needs to be bigger, badder, and faster which is why in these modern stories the world, universe, and/or future of human existence is always at stake. Movie producers think (or more correctly, fear) an audience won't show up for a story on a smaller canvas. It makes me sad to think that might be true, but they haven't tried anything else so who knows?

I've always looked on TV as the medium that could save fantasy because of both it's technical limitations due to resources (it's hard to stage a big end of the world scenario), and perhaps more importantly the opportunity it's ability to spread story out. (It's easier to justify a slower paced character story because look what we'll save on sets and effects!)

In the old days of the X-Men comic books, they'd have the big crossover events once very two years or so. Along the way though, you'd have the development of the characters in their smaller adventures that moved the story forward and the big villain/device/world ending ka-blooie came out of a natural progression of events and character choices. Later on, the crossover events started happening with more frequency, and the arcs felt more forced. But there's a solid five to ten year run in the mid-80s that's just one long story. (Written by he way, by one author, Chris Claremont.)

TV has the ability for those long form arcs where movies (even trilogies) have to deliver the bang for the buck. It's why when the third act cranks up in superhero films and all of a sudden there's world-ending chaos we're like, "Huh?"

I also agree that NuTrek suffers from the same problems as NuWho and the superhero movies, problems that could be fixed in a longer form, less expensive medium where the ability to make another movie isn't dependent on half the world's population showing up opening weekend.

[nacho]

So...bring Trek back to TV!

For NuWho, I agree that with the article -- the show is in enamored with itself. That's the real problem. It's one of the things Chris Ecclestone hinted at when he abruptly quit...

[RottingCorpse]

Here's a really great piece about the money side of big budget moviemaking and the "sure thing" mentality.

http://flavorwire.com/492985/how-the-death-of-mid-budget-cinema-left-a-generation-of-iconic-filmmakers-mia

[Sirharles]

Okay...this is kind of cool

[RottingCorpse]

From an editing standpoint, that's really, really impressive.

And I'm sure we'll see this in about 20 years.

[RottingCorpse]

Marvel's first flop. Remember I said it.

[nacho]

As discussed earlier in this thread -- the brilliance of the Marvel scheme is that they've allowed for flops. It doesn't matter if Ant-Man flops. They're openly gambling with it.

[RottingCorpse]

You said that , and at this point I think I agree. It doesn't change the fact that Ant-Man looks terrible.

[RottingCorpse]

New trailer for Avengers: Age of Ultron. I feel like this gives me nothing new. Sure there's footage we haven't seen before but from a story perspective, but essentially I've been given no new information. Why does this trailer exist?

[nacho]

It exists so every single geek blog can cream all over my Feedly with thousands of words analyzing the dozens of easter eggs in the trailer that, apparently, are only noticed by people who read the comic books.

[RottingCorpse]

Or to get people to tune into Peggy Carter.

Also, it's not as good as the first trailer.

[nacho]

Birdman is the future of this genre. What a wonderful movie... And so fucking meta, I love it. Michael Keaton is basically playing himself, haunted by his role as "Birdman" in a blockbuster early 1990's superhero film (LOL). Birdman's voice, forever tormenting him in his head, is Keaton doing his Batman voice. Terrific...

All I could think of was Lunar Park -- the fictional Brett Easton Ellis autobiography where he's haunted by by the fame of American Psycho decades later (and the spirit of Patrick Bateman/his father).

Loved this movie... 

[RottingCorpse]

Is the "all in one shot" aesthetic annoying or awesome?

[nacho]

Is the "all in one shot" aesthetic annoying or awesome?

I didn't even notice it.