Great Society

Children of the Sun => TV => Topic started by: RottingCorpse on August 10, 2015, 02:48:58 PM

Title: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 10, 2015, 02:48:58 PM
Giving HBO's Westworld it's own thread because who are we fooling? We're all going to watch at least the pilot.

This 30-second tease doesn't show enough to turn my dials too far up, but there's certainly enough here to pique my interest.

Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on August 11, 2015, 07:41:57 AM
I can tell right away that this one's more about the politics/conspiracy of Futureworld.

And that we're a long way from Yul Brenner.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on January 19, 2016, 05:14:05 PM
These type of announcements usually mean trouble in paradise, though after this much production it seems like we'll at least see it someday.

http://movieweb.com/westworld-hbo-tv-stops-production-2016/ (http://movieweb.com/westworld-hbo-tv-stops-production-2016/)

Quote
HBO's ‘Westworld’ Stops Production; 2016 Premiere Still Set

HBO announced today that production on its highly-anticipated series Westworld has been shut down for two months, but the network is still confident that the show will debut sometime this year. Variety reports that the production was temporarily shut down to give series creators Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy Nolan a chance to catch up with writing the scripts for the last four episodes. Filming was originally scheduled to wrap in November of last year, but shooting is now set to resume in March. Take a look at the network's brief statement below.

"As we head into the final phase of production on Westworld, we've made the decision to take a brief hiatus in order to get ahead of the writing."

The show is based on the 1973 sci-fi film Westworld, which centers on an amusement park where visitors can live out their wildest fantasies, with the help of androids. Anthony Hopkins is playing the eccentric park owner, with a supporting cast that includes Ed Harris, Evan Rachel Wood, Ingrid Bolsø Berdal, James Marsden, Thandie Newton, Jeffrey Wright, Miranda Otto, Rodrigo Santoro, Shannon Woodward, Clifton Collins Jr., Ben Barnes, Jimmi Simpson, Angela Sarafyan and Simon Quarterman. Lisa Joy previously revealed that the series is a mix of the sci-fi and Western genres, while Jonathan Nolan added that Westworld is a place where anything can happen.

Westworld was first ordered to series in November 2014, and fans got a first look video from the series back in August. The network was previously targeting a 2015 premiere date, but that was later pushed to an unspecified date in 2016. While the network still contends the show will be released sometime this year, it isn't known when they are targeting the series premiere to air.

Westworld encountered a bit of controversy last year when it was revealed that the series was requiring extras to be, "fully nude and/or witness others fully nude and participate in graphic sexual situations." Actor's union SAG-AFTRA also sent out a notice to its members, in response to this document. The notice informs their members that the SAG-AFTRA Agreement allows actors to withdraw their consent to appear in scenes involving nudity and sexual situations at any time before these scenes are filmed. The union's agreement also stipulates that the set must be closed during these scenes, and that no still photographs may be taken without the consent of the actor. The series resolved this issue with the union by revising their original document.

Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy created the series, based on the original film, with J.J. Abrams, Jerry Weintraub and Bryan Burk serving as executive producers. Do you think that HBO will be able to release Westworld sometime later this year? Chime in with your thoughts, and stay tuned for more updates on this upcoming series.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on January 21, 2016, 11:08:20 AM
They're totally going to recycle everything from the 70s series.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on June 20, 2016, 11:46:27 AM
Nacho sent me an excited text about the Westworld trailer last night while I was going to sleep.  I'm glad I waited until this morning to watch it because the adrenaline rush it gave me would have kept me awake for a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX3u0IlBBO4
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on June 20, 2016, 12:54:12 PM
Between that and an amazing GoT episode, I was up till 1am in general geek mode.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 29, 2016, 11:57:31 AM
This is going to be pretty good, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuS5huqOND4
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on August 29, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
Yes. Looks amazing.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 07:41:45 AM
The latest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Z__wbpDa4
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sirharles on September 14, 2016, 11:29:53 AM
I'm excited for this simply because of the actors.  However, I'm still not quite sure what it's about.  And I've read a bunch of stuff on it.  Let me see if I get this right.  Anthony Hopkins creates a VR dream world using people he creates.  This world is then an attraction park for the uber rich to live out their fantasies.  However the people he creates start to become self aware and chaos ensues.  Does that sum it up?
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 12:33:12 PM
I'm excited for this simply because of the actors.  However, I'm still not quite sure what it's about.  And I've read a bunch of stuff on it.  Let me see if I get this right.  Anthony Hopkins creates a VR dream world using people he creates.  This world is then an attraction park for the uber rich to live out their fantasies.  However the people he creates start to become self aware and chaos ensues.  Does that sum it up?

Woah.... Have you never seen Westworld before? Shit, man, watch that on streaming ASAP. It's a classic icon of 70s sci-fi (and you'll recognize immediately that it's basically inspired a large sub-genre of our modern sci-fi).

So Westworld is about a theme park that's a sort of hybrid between Jurassic Park and Logan's Run -- a vast, enclosed environment that's split into several sections, which includes "westworld" and "medieval world" (we don't see the others).

It's the near-ish future and people pay through the wazoo to spend their vacation in these closed environments (which appear to be well out in the middle of a desert, though some fans suggest that they could be on another planet). The parks are populated by androids who play out all the expected roles for the benefit of their human guests. So there are prostitutes, outlaws, sheriffs, etc. You pay for a package where you can either just be a wandering cowpoke, or you can get involved in a classic old style western shoot-em-up and save the town adventure (which our two main characters in the movie do).

The entire park is run by a massive underground complex where the androids are constantly monitored and repaired and so on. Subplot B is the park owner, in classic park owner style, ignoring his scientists who are telling him that the androids are malfunctioning more and more often and they're not sure why.

These malfunctions, of course, lead to the androids going insane and they start exterminating all of the human guests. The control center gets shut down (apparently by a maniac computer, but I never really understood why) and everyone is killed. Our heroes now have to fight android Yul Brenner. (It's The Terminator, basically. In fact, in some respects, it's exactly, shot-for-shot, The Terminator.)

The sequel, Futureworld, introduced an element of conspiracy to all this. The perfectly human-like androids were being used by a corrupt corporation to infiltrate the world's governments and an intrepid reporter set out to stop them. This was basically Invasion of the Body Snatchers redux.

The first TV show ran with the Futureworld take on the franchise -- evil organization running a theme park but really using the human-like androids to take over the world. Rinse, repeat.

So I don't quite know the theme of the new show. We have Jacob from Lost entering Westworld like in the movie, we have androids and all the stuff from the original movie playing out. But it looks like the androids don't know they're androids, which is very modern sci-fi of them. So perhaps, once they become self-aware, they go on the rampage? (They are androids, though, not VR constructs, as you see in the latest trailer where we get Terminator hands and the dead android dumping ground.)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 12:43:58 PM
Oh, and the whole "Remember, they're not real" thing is an homage to the movie. It's frequently said by our main hero to our reluctant hero, and used to make the end of Act 1 all the more shocking. So, when I see that in the trailer, I see Yul Brenner suddenly using real bullets and not dying in my mind.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 12:49:00 PM
Oh! And trailer comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcL3eP0Hfy4

Also Roman World. Forgot about that one. And we do actually see it in the movie... Though it's at a point where Yul Brenner is really scary so I forgot it.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on September 14, 2016, 12:50:34 PM
One could argue that Westworld introduced concepts that Crichton perfected in Jurassic Park... if one had read Westworld. (Which I have not. I have read Jurassic Park... many times.) But based on the origin Yul Brenner movie, all the conceits are there; the theme park out of control, the corrupt corporate interests, the undercurrent of man's small place in the natural order, and how laughable his attempts to control reality are.

The original Westworld is definitely worth a watch. So ahead of it's time.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 12:53:54 PM
One could argue that Westworld introduced concepts that Crichton perfected in Jurassic Park... if one had read West world. (Which I have not. I have read Jurassic Park... many times.) But based on the origin Yul Brenner movie, all the conceits are there; the theme park out of control, the corrupt corporate interests, the undercurrent of man's small place in the natural order, and how laughable his attempts to control reality are.

The original Westworld is definitely worth a watch. So ahead of it's time.

And once the action starts, it still holds up. God, Brynner is the one and only maniac robot in my eyes!

In the context of the new show, interestingly, the main girl appears to be filling Brynner's shoes. Between the lines, there's an element to Westworld that is sort of Brynner-robot's journey of self-discovery. He comes back twice, but conforms to the rules. Then the third time is when he breaks free.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on September 14, 2016, 01:00:16 PM
Wait, so Westworld never was a novel? How did I not know that?
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 01:05:00 PM
Wait, so Westworld never was a novel? How did I not know that?

It was. Crichton wrote the book after the movie, though (adapting his script).

The book makes it a little bit more clear that there was a malicious computer virus that caused everything to go wrong (which is sort of an unspoken implication in Futureworld).
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on September 14, 2016, 01:24:38 PM
So let's theorize on what Nolan's going to do... At Comic-Con he said that the series is told from the "host's" perspective and not the "human's" perspective. Which is pretty clear in the trailers with our main girl. He also said there was a five-season plan.

So, my prediction:

Season one: The AI's all slowly realize who and what they are. The human guests don't know who's human and who is AI. We'll see episodes or characters who may be pretending to be one or the other for either sexual/comic relief purposes or infiltration purposes. There will be hints of a conspiracy within the corporation. Cliffhanger: The AI's are self-aware. Rebellion is imminent, but not yet widespread. The movie-style parallels in the trailers (the gunslinger hunting people) are relatively small incidents compared to what's coming as Main Girl begins to assume the mantle of Caesar the Ape to lead her people to freedom.

(Cliffhanger B: We learn that they are in a prison/a simulation/a space station/otherwise trapped there on purpose/Hopkins is stealing guest's minds and turning them into unwilling AIs.)

Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 03, 2016, 10:43:35 AM
Going to race home and watch the pilot episode. I've been avoiding reviews, but the "Hosts" being androids is confirmed, Sirharles. However...looks like it's also well into the future and the human "players" are augmented humans.

Glad to hear it's set in the future, which is more in line with the "playground gone insane" tune of the original movie and not the "hokey 70's conspiracy" that the rest of the franchise embraced.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on October 03, 2016, 11:48:11 AM
Anxiously awaiting your review! I want to watch it if I make it up this week.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 03, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
Okay. So the pilot is just a prologue. The "this season on" promo at the end features the standard Westworld set-up -- our two guys coming in for a vacation and getting wrapped up in a robot revolution.

So, as a quiet prologue to the series, this was fine. It was slow, but it also told us every single thing we need to know so that they can get into the meat of the story in episode two. The whole episode is essentially exposition.

Things they did right:

Things they did wrong:



So... It's a slow burn series that demands we give it some time to build. And that's fine.

Since I keep repeating the word, my official review is: "It's fine." With a side order of "Whatever." and maybe a shrug.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 10, 2016, 12:49:18 AM
Okay... Yes. The pilot was a prologue.  Easy as that. And episode two is the reboot where we follow the two guys into the park. Very nice.

Stand out moments:

Mirror /reflection magic with Hopkins.

The guests avoiding side quests because they're boring.

The continued handling and portrayal of the glitch.

Whatever the fuck Ed Harris is up to and how the administrators are asking the same question.

Robot rattler!

Watching androids gently fall asleep makes me sleepy.

The Odyssey on Red River dlc.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on October 10, 2016, 09:51:28 AM
They had ads all over football and baseball yesterday which got me all hot. Looking forward to beers on your couch and catching up on this.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 19, 2016, 06:19:42 PM
Man...still good, but a serious slow burn. I feel like I should check in at the end of the season talking about how much it blew my mind...but only, you know, in hindsight.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on October 20, 2016, 11:22:29 AM
This is what we're watching next time I'm up.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 20, 2016, 11:43:06 AM
Eh...  So far,  it lacks rewatchability for me. I mean,  we really have spent 210 minutes exploring the initial hint of one tiny computer glitch and everyone's slow reaction to it while slowly fleshing out back story.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on October 20, 2016, 11:44:40 AM
Oh, okay. Missus RC and will dig it up for a marathon. She was intrigued by the trailer, and I always like to jump on sci-fi shows she seems interested in.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 20, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
I'd wait till the end of the season. Because there's either going to be a payoff that blows us away or we'll find out that they're just yanking our chain.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on October 24, 2016, 08:44:01 AM
Okay... Westworld is starting to lose me.

Not only is it moving at a snail's pace, but it's just poorly done in terms of writing. Examples:

All the higher ups are, in one way or another, obsessed with the Hosts achieving full-on self awareness. These same people are then surprised when that self-awareness appears to be dawning. Hopkins has flip-flopped twice from "we're doing something special!" to "they're just fucking machines! get over it!"

Meanwhile the quality control people who do suspect something are woefully underused. They feel like characters that the studio forced on the show just so that there was some accountability amidst all the mad scientists and now the writers are ignoring them till they need them for an action scene. Therefore, any sort of internal mystery is lost because we're fed the motivations up front: Hopkins is a shut-in lunatic. Our other guy lost his son and is looking for a replacement child in all the Hosts. Lather generously, rinse, repeat. (Or, in MST3K parlance: Seen it! Taped it!)

Meanwhile, the Glitch (i.e., the burgeoning self-awareness)is hidden because Hopkins just installed an update and everyone's having trouble tracking the Hosts. A few problems here:

1) We had a whole episode about rolling back the update, so...?

2) The update has blinded the computers so the techs can tell if a Host is leaving their programmed loop but they can't tell if the Host is with a Guest or not. But they are able to tell every single little thing going on around them. Now...look... When I stay at the hotel for a book convention, the hotel staff have a pretty clear idea of all my movements and actions. But in this near future artificial world being monitored constantly by high-res satellites they can't find Hosts or figure out if Hosts are with Guests?

More on #2 there -- they can literally follow a Host across the game grid using the satellites, so then when they go to retrieve it it turns into a two day fucked up misadventure?

Also, if they're having such trouble keeping track of everyone, how come they know everything Ed Harris is doing down to his every breath. It's like he's being monitored closer than the Hosts. He goes to blow open a cell door and before it can blow up the request for an explosion goes to the control room and they have to approve it. Wow! Meanwhile, across the map, they can't figure out where their actual chipped, tracked by satellite robot is.

We have finally gotten more of Ed Harris's story. He's...yes, a mad scientist trying to get the machines to reach their self-awareness plateau like pretty much everyone else in the show, though with a fountain of youth twist that makes about as much sense as if it were written just moments before the scene was shot.

Also, having Ed Harris want to fuck up the park in some way is especially odd when the computers relay his farts to 30 people in the control room. 

Overall -- the cast is overcrowded, the show doesn't know how to tell its story and is trying to hard to remove itself from the franchise's story, and the pacing is glacial.

We have six more episodes. I'm going to try and stick it out... But the show is coming very close to personal cancellation for me.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 05, 2016, 05:04:41 PM
Jeez...this show is getting hard to watch. Still haven't watched last week's episode because I simply don't want to. And the nerd-o-sphere is agreeing with me.

So much for replacing GoT, HBO! Next!
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 06, 2016, 04:43:50 PM
Yeah. This show is off the rails. I'll give them a chance and finish the season,  but they'd better pull a rabbit out of their hat if they want to keep me on the hook till 2017.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 25, 2016, 11:44:44 AM
Catching up on the latest two episodes. We finally got some action... Except the action was just a rehash of the pilot episode of Beyond Westworld, so...I don't know.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 29, 2016, 11:04:17 AM
Well, I'm caught up. But I don't actually remember the last episode because, even with the big Beyond Westworld reveal, it's still really just about Dolores communing with a horse. And I'm really tired with the explaining the Prime Directive after dramatically implying that the Prime Directive is broken.

*MUSIC SWELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* *click* "Ah, yes, you see. It's impossible for....."

Also, Bernard's selective "can't see the truth" thing is a little silly. Was that decision made like, as they were filming? Oh! Oh! Let's make him one of them!
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sirharles on November 29, 2016, 11:28:03 AM
Have you watched last Sunday's episode where
Spoiler
you find out who Bernard really is
?
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 29, 2016, 12:24:16 PM
Yes. Which just made me super mad. Especially when Dolores had her flashback which implied that Bernard also looks like Arnold, which doesn't make sense.

But, okay...let's roll with it! Bernard not only being a version of Arnold but also looking like him goes a very long way in the theory that we're actually watching two timelines and some of the older characters (namely Ed Harris) are the future version of the younger characters in Timeline A.

Also, the "blood sacrifice" line means that the board (namely the black lady) are Hosts.

So I like the idea that we can't be sure which timeline is which (since the Hosts are ageless and frozen in one time period), and I like the idea that Hopkins has seeded the Hosts outside of the park Beyond Westworld style, but that's almost too little too late here as far as I'm concerned. Once that storyline blows up there's really nowhere to go except for a Host rebellion or a rehash of the franchise's less-interesting tropes. So they have to continue doing the slow build and will very quickly be stuck in a corner.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sirharles on November 29, 2016, 12:48:44 PM
They are doing two timelines...the picture of William's soon to be wife is the same one that was in the first or second episode.  So yes, William is Ed Harris.  Plus Bernard's talks with Delores are the human Bernard and not the creation Hopkins did.  Although I'm not sure on that...I'd have to look at the technology to see if he's holding a tablet when he talks to her.

It seems to me that while I do find it entertaining, you're right...where do they go from here?  Maeve starts a rebellion, but is that in the current or past timeline?
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 29, 2016, 01:06:06 PM
I think Maeve is in the current timeline because she saw that advertisement that pretty much said the park had been at it for three decades.

Bernard and Dolores talking in the secret room was indeed in the past. Her initial awakening (so she's Patient Zero?). If I cared enough about this show, I'd try and pay attention to the visual clues. (Such as when Dolores is in her blue dress -- which seems like the past -- and when she's naked, which seems like the present.) Apparently, we're also supposed to pay attention to the logos (as opposed to the technology). There is an older logo that drifts around very subtly seemingly only in the past timeline.

So here's my prediction. William and Dolores, during her initial awakening, go to the edge of the map and shit gets fucked up. Perhaps that's when she kills Arnold? Everything is rebooted, but William is consumed by the insanity that's already starting to take him and becomes "addicted" to solving some greater riddle. Maybe we're on a quest for immortality here. So then we reveal the two timelines in full and Maeve starts her rebellion and...the show peters out before the end of the second season and we look back on this thread in five years when Ed Harris dies of auto-erotic asphyxiation in Bangkok.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sirharles on November 29, 2016, 01:35:19 PM
It always ends with auto-erotic asphyxiation with you doesn't it?
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on November 29, 2016, 01:39:16 PM
Hopefully not.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on December 06, 2016, 01:07:34 PM
Okay. So I watched the bullshit finale, which was 90% The Inward Journey of Our Souls At Teatime and 10% robot apocalypse, primarily to provide a cliffhanger.

The robot apocalypse was fun. Talking about a children's puzzle game for 40 minutes and how it relates to self-discovery of one's interior monologue was not fun.

Season two won't air until 2018 when, I imagine, they're planning to team it up with the final season of GoT so we'll all sit there and watch it because we'll be too shocked to change the channel.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on December 24, 2016, 06:09:01 PM
In having to interact with other humans because of the holidays, I've found a lot of people really like the new Westworld.

Quote
We recut all 10 hours of ‘Westworld’ into a single, chronological timeline

https://theoutline.com/post/637/westworld-recut-into-single-timeline
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on December 26, 2016, 12:26:25 PM
When I get a chance, I want to watch that... Because I think the timeline shenanigans was a bit too much for me. It was almost too clever for the show's own good.

Plus, I have a theory that there's a third timeline and that Maeve is another 30 years in the future.

All that would be awesome and great...if the show was awesome and great. At the level they're playing at, though, it's just a stupid gimmick.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on January 06, 2017, 12:17:41 PM
BTW, you seem to be the outlier on Westworld. Everybody (and I mean everybody) I start talking to about pop culture raves about how good they think it is.

I sometimes wonder if you're hampered by your vast exposure to the history of fantasy and sci-fi and that since everything is derivative, you can see all the influences that a show pulls from. Like those sportswriters who have studied college basketball for forty years, but who can't pick NCAA brackets for shit because they simply over-analyze everything.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on January 06, 2017, 03:36:08 PM
BTW, you seem to be the outlier on Westworld. Everybody (and I mean everybody) I start talking to about pop culture raves about how good they think it is.

I sometimes wonder if you're hampered by your vast exposure to the history of fantasy and sci-fi and that since everything is derivative, you can see all the influences that a show pulls from. Like those sportswriters who have studied college basketball for forty years, but who can't pick NCAA brackets for shit because they simply over-analyze everything.

You watch it, then. See what you think. And when you come crying back to me I'll say I told you so.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on January 22, 2017, 11:51:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niggydsYjrU
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on July 23, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Season 2 trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFM3V_dors
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on July 25, 2017, 11:57:55 AM
Maybe something will happen this season!
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on February 05, 2018, 10:53:20 AM
More from the Super Bowl...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmfriZoMw0
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on February 06, 2018, 07:25:15 AM
I'm hoping this is the sort of show that's good after it gets cancelled.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: RottingCorpse on February 06, 2018, 11:28:45 AM
You're apparently the outlier on this though. Everybody I know raves about it.
Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: nacho on February 06, 2018, 12:00:35 PM
You're apparently the outlier on this though. Everybody I know raves about it.

It's not bad. I like the idea that the first season is actually covering, like, 15 timelines or some shit and we're left to think about how and why.

But it's so introspective. And I feel like the timeline fuckery is the only new thing about it. otherwise, it's a rehashed "robots are us/we are robots/robots are aware" tropefest. I mean, remove one clever plot device, and maybe give fewer lines to Hopkins, and we've been watching this same story since Capek's RUR.

Now I know that argument can be made about everything, but I hate it when they try to hide behind it (see Interstellar and Inception -- a reskin of Arrival and Dreamscape, but given this Millennial "YOU AIN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE!!!" twist).

Westworld could be great if they weren't so obsessed about making it look great. You know what I mean?

Another factor: We're in an era of grand storytelling both on the small screen and large. Westworld also suffers from the fact that there is a glut of unique and interesting takes on sci-fi tropes happening at the moment. Every channel has one. Westworld benefits from production value and that HBO charm, but it's one of many in a sea of great TV that none of us have time to watch anyway. It almost feels 15 years too late. Or maybe too early.