Great Society

Archives => Newsday Special: Pass the Ammo, the world's ending => Topic started by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 01:33:40 PM

Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 01:33:40 PM
So...the levee broke and the area of the city i live in, which as never ever flooded, is now submerged.  I was holding out hope, but then I read this:

Quote
Dozens of residents evacuated to the dry land of the Filmore Street bridge over the Marconi Canal were stranded between the flooded neighborhood on their right, and the flooded City Park on their left, hours after they had been plucked from rooftops or second-story windows.


yes, this bridge is a two minute walk from my house.  

so...now I'm probably going to be stuck here at my parent's house for at least a week, er, wait, that was yesterday's prediction.  Talk to me, MSNBC...

no power for two months?  jeez.

so anyway.  all my books, DVDs, and most of my clothing are now swirling around in sewage-infested saltwater.  time to update the old amazon wishlist!  http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/registry.html/103-6300128-9912628?%5Fencoding=UTF8&id=1F6Z21TPPSKW3

I'll let you guys know more when i hear it.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 01:41:33 PM
Cass, if you need any help or whatever, you call.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: jreale on August 30, 2005, 01:46:19 PM
Oh my god, Sparky, I can't believe it. I guess the next time you move, it'll be a lot easier. Fucking mother nature.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 01:46:42 PM
maybe...just...some emotional support.  like...a hug or something.  just...even a handshake.  OH GOD
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 01:49:22 PM
If you need emotional crash time away from the wicked family, I can make up a bed in the basement and you can be amused by a wicked family that's wicked to people besides you.  Seriously, door's open up here.  Call before you come at 3am, because I might be masturbating.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 01:50:12 PM
wouldn't be the first time i've interrupted your dates with Rosie Palmas and her five sisters.
Title: Re: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: jreale on August 30, 2005, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: Cassander


so anyway.  all my books, DVDs, and most of my clothing are now swirling around in sewage-infested saltwater.  time to update the old amazon wishlist!  http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/registry.html/103-6300128-9912628?%5Fencoding=UTF8&id=1F6Z21TPPSKW3


Right, OK, but can I feel good about sending someone The Complete Poems of Carl Sandburg when he's got no socks?  C'mon what do you really need, and are you Zord?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 01:58:59 PM
who's zord?

i can handle socks and underwear, etc.  i'm going down to the thrift store today to get some new shirts.  but oh god! My lovingly assembled library!  

seriously, i'm feeling very zen right now.  imagine having no possessions.  it's easy if you try!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 02:06:04 PM
Quote
New Orlean's Mayor Nagin said both the city's airports were under water, the Southern Yacht Club had burned to the ground, an oil tanker had run aground and was leaking, there were gas leaks throughout the city and Interstate 10's twin spans heading east over the lake were "completely destroyed."


christ.  maybe i should start looking for a new place to live.

on the upside...don't have to pay rent this month!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 02:10:04 PM
Time to go share a room with Nubbins.

Hey, Yotoc, is the other half of your Duplex still open?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 02:12:45 PM
next door to action jackson and family? i smell sitcom!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 30, 2005, 02:14:37 PM
hehe... if I'm around, you're more than welcome to crash in Atlanta.  Even if I'm not around, I have a very comfortable doormat and a gated community.

Glad to hear you're okay.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 30, 2005, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: Cassander
next door to action jackson and family? i smell sitcom!


Nope, got rented out.  Shame.  That would be freaking hilarious until we all became drunks and Blue murdered us.

Glad you're ok.  You can also crash here if you ever get that desperate.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 02:18:35 PM
I wish somebody would let off several dirty bombs in DC so I could go crash with everyone.

Oh, man, everyone I knew and loved is dead.  Can I come spend a week with you, Nubbs?!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 02:23:39 PM
Hey, does this link work?  AP's 100 photos, including Cass, nude and running away in a panic.

http://ap.wwltv.com/dynamic/galleries/305-1.html?SITE=WWL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=USHEADS.html
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 30, 2005, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: nacho
Hey, does this link work?  AP's 100 photos, including Cass, nude and running away in a panic.

http://ap.wwltv.com/dynamic/galleries/305-1.html?SITE=WWL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=USHEADS.html


hah... the first photo is a looter with an entire bucket of beer.  

Times like these, people really understand what's important in life.  It brings a tear to my eye.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 02:34:13 PM
Here's one of the busted levee's.

(https://greatsociety.org/uploads/./userfiles/nacho/levee.jpg)
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 02:34:53 PM
I just got finished reading an article where they talked to these two guys holding out in their still-dry home and were going around and snagging alcohol that they found floating around, intact. Hilarious!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 02:44:21 PM
Look on the upside - those wet t-shirt contests are going to be really easy to come by this Mardi Gras!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 02:46:33 PM
Let the mindless comparisons to truly catastrophic events commence!

Quote
"This is our tsunami," Mayor A. J. Holloway of Biloxi, Miss., told The Biloxi Sun Herald.


Ok. Tsunami kills a quarter million people. Katrina kills 80 or so.

No fucking comparison. God.

"This is our Nazi occupation!"
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 02:49:15 PM
"america....fuck yeah"
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: jreale on August 30, 2005, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Tyson
Look on the upside - those wet t-shirt contests are going to be really easy to come by this Mardi Gras!


Cass, show us your tits!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 30, 2005, 04:23:45 PM
I'd be grabbing booze too. I mean it's not like FEMA is going to be trying to salavge it. Plus, after my house got wiped out, I'd need a drink pretty fucking bad.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 04:25:44 PM
Yeah. I don't consider that looting. The store is going to get it all back from insurance, anyways. Well, hopefully.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 30, 2005, 04:28:25 PM
A man's gotta drink!

In all seriousness, Cass. I'm sorry about your place. If it's any consolation though, remember . . . it's just "stuff" you lost. Yeah it royally sucks, but at least you're physically okay. You lived to fight another day and that's worth something.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 04:31:06 PM
And it makes you a "tortured artist," too, man. Chicks dig that shit.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 04:36:28 PM
chicks also dig people with homes.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 30, 2005, 04:38:51 PM
You saved the novel though, right?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 04:48:34 PM
oooo yes i did.  ok, i'll make a list of things i did save.  keep in mind, this was at 1 in the morning when i decided to leave and katrina was only a category 3 and we weren't expecting flooding at all since my section of town is protected by a huge levee...a huge levee that would only be broken by a huge catastrophic storm.  and how often do those come around? so i took these things thinking that i didn't want them to get wet in case a window blew out or something.

computer
two guitars
amplifier
box o' important documents
playstation 2
CDs
4 t-shirts, 2 pairs pants, 2 pairs shorts
the entire Jetbaby album collection*

Jetbaby is the band i live with.  they were going to stick it out (have since relocated to northern louisiana), but they wanted me to take all their recordings with me in case anything happened, plus some assorted paraphenalia and one-of-a-kind mix CDs.

everything else i left.  the only other precaution i took was putting irreplaceable books in a garbage bag and putting it in the attic.  i guess i shoulda taken them too, but well, one tends not to think too clearly in the face of a hurricane.  

as for the novel, well...this may delay the schedule.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 04:53:34 PM
Looks like you made off with the essentials. Most things can be replaced, but computer data, documents, and that album collection wouldn't be. So hey, you made the right choice. And the Playstation. That too.

If I'm ever forced to evacuate, I'm taking my PowerBook, my race bike, my race bag, and my saxes.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 30, 2005, 04:56:23 PM
Hey, you took the importnat stuff with you.

Any idea when you'll be able to get in your place and survey the damage? Actually, do you know yet whether or not your building is still standing? N'Orleans is an old city, and I've heard stories of flood damage alone bringing down old buildings, not to mention the crazy winds a hurricane kicks up.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 05:03:04 PM
my house is a brick house and as far as i can tell my neighborhood was fine until the flooding.  so i'm sure there's a house there, it's just full of water.  probably won't be let back into the city for a week and a half at the very earliest.  the roads are impassable, the power grid has to be rebuilt, the water has to be pumped out, and there's no potable water.  i still haven't been able to find out exactly how bad my neighborhood is, but if everything's as horrible as they say, i might not even go back.  but i'm trying not to think about that right now.  

maybe i should sell my car and ride around on a greyhound for a month.  that would be kind of cool.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: RottingCorpse on August 30, 2005, 05:07:56 PM
So, you're in NC now waiting it out?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 05:27:27 PM
Ooh, martial law has been declared.  Now looters can be machine-gunned, right?  Escape from New Orleans!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 05:31:12 PM
Get your movie scripts ready!

"The Night of the Dirty Bomb: Trapped in the bunker"

Find -- Replace

New Orleans

Flood

Attic

Superdome

-------
National Guardsmen let some of the 10,000 people sheltering inside the arena take their bedding out onto the concourse, where it was cooler and the breeze was welcome.

"Oh God, fresh air, it's so wonderful. It's the first time I've wanted to breathe all day," said Robin Smith, 33. "When you think what we could've gone through, it's not too bad in there. But it's certainly not as wonderful as this."

The bathrooms were filthy, and barrels overflowed with trash. With the air conditioning off since power went out Monday morning, the bricks were slick with condensation.

Despite the conditions, the Superdome was a welcome refuge for people rescued from the rising water in the city Tuesday. National Guard troops brought refugees in their big trucks, and Louisiana's wildlife enforcement department brought more people by pickup.

Mary Stewart, 80, slid off the back of a National Guard truck with nothing but the clothes on her back, her purse and the shoe on her left foot.

"I was so scared I don't feel I have any entrails any more," said Stewart, who spent a harrowing night in the attic of a beauty salon in the city's flooded Ninth Ward.

Beauty salon employee Kioka Williams, 23, said they had to hack through the ceiling to reach the attic as the water rose.

"Oh my God, it was hell," she said. "We were screaming, hollering, flashing lights. It was complete chaos."

The eight people in the salon were rescued early Tuesday by a police boat.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 06:45:43 PM
Quote
President Jefferson Davis' summer home was destroyed


Dude...this shit is serious now.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 06:53:34 PM
(https://greatsociety.org/uploads/./userfiles/nacho/rooftop.jpg)
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 06:54:16 PM
horrible proof!

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/katrina/pdf/083005_a01a02.pdf

scroll down to the second page to the photo of the firefighters helping a guy in a boat.  On the left is the corner of my block.  I'm about 10 houses down.  

nacho says i should come visit him and blue for a few days...what y'all think?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 06:57:21 PM
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/katrina/pdf/083005_a06a07.pdf

and here too. (second photo)
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 06:57:45 PM
Hopping the train now, so offline for an hour or so.  Don't send me a PM saying OMG NEED TO PLAN WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING FOR OHIO!!!!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 30, 2005, 07:07:45 PM
OMG PREGNANT IT'S YOURS
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 08:02:04 PM
OMG!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 08:30:03 PM
I like how I see these horrible pictures of destroyed neighborhoods and the first thought that comes to my mind is, "Well, at least you could get some good swim training in!"

Sorry to see that your block has been rezoned "Atlantis Theme Park". If, for some godawful reason, you end up in California, PM me and I can help you out with whatever.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 30, 2005, 09:15:33 PM
Quote from: Tyson
I like how I see these horrible pictures of destroyed neighborhoods and the first thought that comes to my mind is, "Well, at least you could get some good swim training in!"


I think I'd rather funnel bong water than try to swim in that muck.  That's probably some of the dirtiest water on earth... not to mention all the live electrical wires and seeping gas lines.  You probably couldn't swim a mile in it without running into some serious danger.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: jreale on August 30, 2005, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: Nubbins
Quote from: Tyson
I like how I see these horrible pictures of destroyed neighborhoods and the first thought that comes to my mind is, "Well, at least you could get some good swim training in!"


I think I'd rather funnel bong water than try to swim in that muck.  That's probably some of the dirtiest water on earth... not to mention all the live electrical wires and seeping gas lines.  You probably couldn't swim a mile in it without running into some serious danger.


The NOLA pentathlon: Not for the lit mags.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nubbins
I think I'd rather funnel bong water than try to swim in that muck.  That's probably some of the dirtiest water on earth... not to mention all the live electrical wires and seeping gas lines.  You probably couldn't swim a mile in it without running into some serious danger.


It'd be good preparation for Venice Beach in a week an a half...

I read a lot of reports about the dead animals floating around and the gasoline and all. The worst part of all this, I think, is going to be what's in the water. Not the water itself. Just think what else is floating around. That water's swept through hospitals and clinics. That water's got Cass' dirty socks in them, for god's sake!

On the upside, once this is all cleaned up, they're going to have some shiny new infrastructure. But getting there is going to be a pain in the arse.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 09:47:16 PM
(https://greatsociety.org/uploads/./userfiles/nacho/beer.jpg)
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 10:15:17 PM
THE COOKIES! DON'T FORGET THE COOKIES!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 30, 2005, 10:27:12 PM
Orc beer!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 10:37:53 PM
Good info piling up here: http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/katrina_media_evacua.html
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 11:54:50 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/firewall/38725768/

Black people loot, white people find.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2005, 11:59:17 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050829/pl_afp/usweathervenezuelaoil

BUT LET'S ASSASSINATE HIM ANYWAYS OMG LOL GOD RULEZ PEACE TO CHRIST SEND ME MONEY C/O 700 CLUB LOLOLOLOL!!!!!1111one!11
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Matt on August 31, 2005, 12:19:55 AM
Thanks a bunch, Nacho. Now I keep seeing Ents in my head stomping around New Orleans wiping out Mardi Gras celebrators.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 12:27:08 AM
Quote from: Tyson
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050829/pl_afp/usweathervenezuelaoil

BUT LET'S ASSASSINATE HIM ANYWAYS OMG LOL GOD RULEZ PEACE TO CHRIST SEND ME MONEY C/O 700 CLUB LOLOLOLOL!!!!!1111one!11


They're offering eye surgery??  I want my free Venezuelan Lasik!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 04:15:27 AM
From bad to worse.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/email_attributed_to_.html
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 08:56:26 AM
Quote from: Tyson


Black people loot, white people find.


But, of course.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 08:59:14 AM
Quote from: yotoc


They're offering eye surgery??  I want my free Venezuelan Lasik!


Then you won't be able to see the damage.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 09:12:48 AM
This bugs me:

Quote
The poorest 20% (you can argue with the number -- 10%? 18%? no one knows) of the city was left behind to drown. This was the plan. Forget the sanctimonious bullshit about the bullheaded people who wouldn't leave. The evacuation plan was strictly laissez-faire. It depended on privately owned vehicles, and on having ready cash to fund an evacuation. The planners knew full well that the poor, who in new orleans are overwhelmingly black, wouldn't be able to get out. The resources -- meaning, the political will -- weren't there to get them out.


Since when was the government there to help people out?  We're not living in a fucking soviet.  After the fact, they'll send the Guard in because that's what the Guard does, and the feeble FEMA efforts, but, as far as evacuation, it's always going to be: "Uh, shit, get out of there."  What are they supposed to do?  This is America -- we all hate the fucking government, so the fucking government isn't about to do anything because they know they'll get all of their jeeps set on fire.  Interference!! *firefight*

Hey, Greyhound's 20 bucks.  That's round trip.  And since all of the well-funded white people left all of their shit behind (like our own not at all well-funded Cassander), the poor people could have done the same and even stolen a bicycle.  Amazing how far you could get in a day.  

And there was a white girl just now on the news who was living out of her car because she only has 80 bucks, no family, no friends, and her NO bank got fucked.

Of course, she was cute, so the emergency white people's fund will kick into action and she'll be drinking champagne out of a dried black penis flask in no time, sitting on a couch also made of black people's skin.

Storm coming to destroy city.

Storm surge could go inland six miles

No car, no money.

I'd get on a bike and pedal all night.  Sleep in culverts, eat snails, run naked through the woods trying to catch rabbits and screaming incoherently.  Black people are used to that, right?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 10:10:40 AM
Ready to hate me again people?

Black people are lazy and will continue to play the part of 'victim' forever.  Here's one even better... I bet some of those people stayed behind just so they could loot.  You don't see them looting food and water, not when they can grab a 32" tv.  They really make me sick.  

Tyson, that link was about the most insulting thing I've ever read.  Ever.  We don't need a hurricane to keep the black man down.  They're doing a good job of that all by themselves.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 31, 2005, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: yotoc
Black people are lazy and will continue to play the part of 'victim' forever.  Here's one even better... I bet some of those people stayed behind just so they could loot.  You don't see them looting food and water, not when they can grab a 32" tv.  They really make me sick.


Oh come on... you don't REALLY believe this do you?  You're just saying this for the shock factor.

If I was back making $14k a year, had no means of transportation and had been inundated with CNN Stormfest after CNN Stormfest time after time again, I'd have stuck around too.  The only reason anyone stayed is because they couldn't possibly imagine how bad things would get.  

Here's one even better... I bet that if I'd been stuck in NOLA and I was wandering around empty streets and found myself in front of an electronics store with shattered windows and 40 PSP's inside surrounded by video games, I'd grab two or three and as many games as I could.  Furthermore, I could find any number of ways to rationalize it:  

Water's going to ruin it eventually anyway, so why not?  

I'll come back and pay for it once everything gets cleaned up.  

These last couple days have been so stressful, I need something to take my mind off the disaster.  

I've already lost everything and the government's going to fuck me out of compensation, so I deserve this.  

Etc., etc., etc.  It would be too tempting not to take something like that when it's staring you in the face, I don't care how hungry I am.  I could be bleeding from 20 different places and a scene like that would give me pause.  Race has nothing to do with it, man.  It's base fucking instinct.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 11:33:39 AM
Blue says that the destruction of NOLA and Miss. ports, followed by a slow and agonizing recovery, will open the door to a possible financial depression.  NOLA being a major port and the tax base for all of LA being shattered and, even after reconstruction, the continued crippling population/tax loss all coming together to fuck us.

I pooh-poohed her.  I said NOLA isn't irreplaceable, other ports will take up the slack, and we don't use the Mississippi like we used to, that's why we built the Interstates, and the only hit will be Gulf oil and the reconstruction efforts, which won't lead to a depression.

Now, I'm coming to realize that my predictions around this whole incident are off base.  So -- thoughts on an economic collapse of some sort tied to Katrina?  Yay or nay?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 11:40:50 AM
Houston Astrodome Opened for Superdome Refugees
Thousands to be Moved by Bus

By Jacqueline L. Salmon, Ann Gerhart and Fred Barbash
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 31, 2005; 10:24 AM



ALEXANDRIA, La., Aug. 31 -- As flood waters continue to rise and power supplies deteriorate in New Orleans, relief officials have decided to move the 25,000 people being sheltered at the Superdome to the Astrodome in Houston, Red Cross officials said Wednesday.

Margaret O'Brien Molina, an official with the Red Cross here in Alexandria, was notified of the plans early this morning in a telephone call among local relief workers.

Carrie Martin, a spokesman for the American Red Cross in Washington, said at mid-morning that the plans for the evacuation are still being made, but the Red Cross, through local affiliates, would handle the operation. She said she expected it would begin in the next 12 to 24 hours.

Martin said residents would most likely by moving by bus.

How people will be extricated from the waters of New Orleans and make it to Houston remains a question.

After a night of scattered looting, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babinequx Blanco (D) suggested there was no immediate plan for mass evacuationsand no prospect of the flooding subsiding.

In fact, the breach in the levee is reported to be widening and the waters of Lake Pontchartrain rising thanks to recent rainfall. The Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, said on ABC's "Good Morning America" that "we are looking at 12 to 16 weeks" before people can return to the city."

Next door in Mississippi, Gov. Haley Barbour (R), reported that a convoy of 18-wheelers bearing essential supplies such as food and water were on the way to the coast after crews from across the country succeeded in clearing trees, debris and layers of muck off some of the highways.

In Washington, Energy Secretary Samuel W. Bodman, as expected, said in television interviews that the Bush administration will release oil from federal petroleum reserves to help refiners affected by Hurricane Katrina. A formal announcement was expected later in the day.

He spoke as crude oil and gasoline prices hit new records because of disruption in the supply chain and as the credit-rating agency Standard & Poor's estimated that the economic impact of Kratrina could shave "a few points" off the nation's primary measurement of economic output, the gross domestic product.

In Baton Rouge and here in Alexandria, a city in the middle of Louisiana, about 175 miles northwest of New Orleans, officials were bracing for a predicted influx of tens of thousands of evacuees to Red Cross and community shelters. Some were people who left New Orleans before Katrina hit, raising questions about where others would go.

A few arrived Tuesday night, escaping rising floodwaters in New Orleans.

Among them were Byron Allen and eight relatives, who left for Alexandria Monday after the water started rising with the breach of levees holding back Lake Pontchartrain.

"We just heard that Alexandria was the safest place to be," he said. However, Allen said, his wife and three children are still trapped in New Orleans and he had been unable to reach them because of the rising flood waters.

So began Day Three of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

There were no further reliable figures on the number of dead, although rescue workers had started going house to house in some communities with crowbars to check for people, living or dead.

Nor was there any visible progress in plugging the levee that began flooding New Orleans Tuesday, turning the Louisiana Superdome into an island sheltering more than 25,000 souls, some of them new arrivals, others completing their third or fourth night of unhappy refuge.

Gov. Blanco, looking exhausted, said on NBC's "Today" program that repairing the levee presented a "logistical nightmare."

"We're working against a lot of odds," she said. "A great hole has dug itself out were the breach occurred. Sand bags are of no use. They get swallowed up into a black hole."

She said engineers were contemplating dropping "large concrete pieces" into the area in an effort to plug the leak.

"We are looking at 12 to 16 weeks before people can come in," New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said on ABC's "Good Morning America, "and the other issue that's concerning me is have dead bodies in the water. At some point in time the dead bodies are going to start to create a serious disease issue."

To repair one of the levees holding back Lake Pontchartrain, officials late Tuesday dropped 3,000-pound sandbags from helicopters and hauled dozens of 15-foot concrete barriers into the breach, Maj. Gen. Don Riley of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers told the Associated Press. Officials also had a more audacious plan: finding a barge to plug the 500-foot hole, the AP.

Riley said it could take close to a month to get the water out of the city. If the water rises a few feet higher, it could also wipe out the water system for the whole city, said New Orleans' homeland security chief Terry Ebbert told the AP.

Gov. Blanco suggested there was no blueprint yet for evacuating the Superdome, which, by all accounts, has become a dank and hot and stinking hole of humanity.

"We can use boats," she said. "We can use vehicles that can travel in water. If we can't use vehicles we can helicopter them out."

As for the looting, she said, "I think we have priorities. Of course we have problems with looters. We are going to try to bring law and order back to the streets, but first of all we've got to continue our search-and-rescue operation and fix that breach . . . We don't like looters one bit, but one of our fears is that if we don't stop the breach, we will put peoples' lives in jeopardy.

"We're concerned about essentials. We are asking for more military presence in the city."

Molina, a spokeswoman for the Southwest Red Cross based in Alexandria, said that the shelters as far away as Arkansas and Texas are filling up with people who had left New Orleans before Katrina hit.

She said many had moved to homes of friends or to hotels and are turning up at shelters as they overstay their welcomes and run out of money.

"These people have no place to go back to," she said.

The release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is designed to give refineries in the Gulf Coast area a temporary supply of crude oil to take the place of interrupted shipments from tankers or offshore oil platforms affected by the storm.

The government's emergency petroleum stockpile -- nearly 700 million barrels of oil stored in underground salt caverns along the Texas and Louisiana Gulf coast -- was established to cushion oil markets during energy disruptions.

The production and distribution of oil and gas remained severely disrupted by the shutdown of a key oil import terminal off the coast of Louisiana and by the Gulf region's widespread loss of electricity, which is needed to power pipelines and refineries, wire services said.

Bodman, speaking on CNBC, said the decision to release reserves was made late Tuesday.

Gasoline prices, which closed up 20 percent Tuesday on the New York Mercantile Exchange, continued climbing Wednesday, the Associated Press said. Unleaded gasoline was trading at $2.5585 a gallon by midday in Europe, up more than 8 cents for a new record.

Mississippi Gov. Barbour said he hoped his state had reached a "turning point" with the clearing of some roads and the impending arrival of relief supplies.

"We've had crews come in from all over, God bless them," he said on the "Today" program. "We've turned the first corner, but there are a lot of corners left to go."

In Alexandria, officials opened an 8,000-seat enclosed stadium, the city convention center and an exhibit hall, as well as a city-owned barn for displaced pets.

They also began training hundreds of Alexandria residents on how to staff shelters, while area churches opened their doors to those fleeing the catastrophe.

"It seemed like yesterday people were out on the street saying 'ha ha ha, nothing happened,' " said Rev. Perfeto Esquibel, pastor of Christian Worship Center in Alexandria, which is opening its sanctuary and gymnasium to evacuees. "And now it's death and destruction."

"I just hope they're all right," he said softly, tears in his eyes.

Gerhart reported from Baton Rouge, La. Barbash reported from Washington.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 31, 2005, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: nacho
Blue says that the destruction of NOLA and Miss. ports, followed by a slow and agonizing recovery, will open the door to a possible financial depression.  NOLA being a major port and the tax base for all of LA being shattered and, even after reconstruction, the continued crippling population/tax loss all coming together to fuck us.

I pooh-poohed her.  I said NOLA isn't irreplaceable, other ports will take up the slack, and we don't use the Mississippi like we used to, that's why we built the Interstates, and the only hit will be Gulf oil and the reconstruction efforts, which won't lead to a depression.

Now, I'm coming to realize that my predictions around this whole incident are off base.  So -- thoughts on an economic collapse of some sort tied to Katrina?  Yay or nay?


Hell yeah.  This is huge and will eventually fuck us all up in some way.  I mocked the "this is our tsunami" statement a couple days ago because hurricanes have been so over-hyped with next to zero delivery on the damage scale, but this... wow... this is pretty incredible.  I'm used to houses being blown apart and seeing scared people crying on television about lost spouses, but this is a whole different level.

Just listening to the elected officials from that part of the country tells me as much.  They've got CNN barking up their asses about, "What are you going to do?  What is the plan?  Where do you go from here?"  And each and every one of them looks like some haggard deer caught in the headlights and they just sort of mumble out an answer into the camera that says nothing at all.  There's no plan.  They have absolutely no idea what to do.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 12:05:55 PM
Calling on the reserves to fill in where Gulf oil is failing is a big step, yeah.  But I just don't see depression.  NYC was our financial HQ and 9/11 only resulted in a blip on the radar.  Even then, when we cried recession, the Repubs said nope.  I don't see where losing NOLA will do any greater damage on money than 9/11.  Oil's a big worry, and those platforms are easier to replace than pumping out the city.

Will losing one American city really spiral us into something terrible?  I wouldn't rank it as a top tier city, either, in terms of importance to the country's well-being.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 31, 2005, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: nacho
Calling on the reserves to fill in where Gulf oil is failing is a big step, yeah.  But I just don't see depression.  NYC was our financial HQ and 9/11 only resulted in a blip on the radar.  Even then, when we cried recession, the Repubs said nope.  I don't see where losing NOLA will do any greater damage on money than 9/11.  Oil's a big worry, and those platforms are easier to replace than pumping out the city.

Will losing one American city really spiral us into something terrible?  I wouldn't rank it as a top tier city, either, in terms of importance to the country's well-being.




Quote from: CNN
Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon in the near future, Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said Wednesday. "There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," he said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 12:21:48 PM
Gas prices were predicted to be $3.50 by 06, anyway.

Besides, I'm immune to gas prices.  I think they should be high because it costs more to ride the Metro than drive to work for half the people in the building right now.  The govt. needs to let go of gas price subsidies and get public transport in gear.  Unlike many countries, we actually have the money and the know how to run an effective public transport system.

The public needs to be more responsible and the government needs to realize that you aren't supposed to make money from public transport.  The point is getting the people where they need to go because employment = taxes.  Throw in sales tax and other shit and we're giving the govt. 50 cents on the dollar.  How dare they complain that Amtrak costs them money.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 12:31:11 PM
well, i was woken this morning by a call from my mom...asheville, the biggest city in western north carolina, is completely out of gas and people are coming down to my mountain city (hendersonville) to fill up, so she said get out there and get it before it's all gone! i arrive at the nearest station and there's lines and 2.85 prices.  is this going on anywhere else?  

you'd think they'd open up those reserves sooner.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 12:33:09 PM
No lines here.  But we're always the last to fall apart, of course.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Nubbins on August 31, 2005, 12:59:29 PM
The other thing I don't think people are thinking about when they compare the financial woes of this to 9/11 is that after 9/11, most of NYC's and DC's financial centers were still intact.  Sure, the death toll and national effect was pretty far reaching, but after a week, most of us didn't have any problem getting back to work again.  The stock market and airports may have closed, but they were up and running again within a week.  Our offices were still there and the damage from the attacks was pretty localized when you really think about it.

But with this, not only is the oil a concern, but what happens to NOLA or any of these other towns when months go by with no electricity?  Even if people have evacuated, what happens when they have no job to go back to?  What happens to the places in Mississippi where 5 or 10 casinos that bring in half a mil a day are completely wiped out?  It's not like once the waters recede, people can just go right back to doing what they did before the storm.

NOLA may not be on a top 10 list of top tier cities, but this involves more than just NOLA... it's an entire region and the permanance of the disaster is much greater than it was on 9/11.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 01:05:12 PM
Now here's a nugget from the Beeb:

Quote
About a million people were evacuated from the New Orleans area before the hurricane struck, but Mayor Nagin said a "couple hundred thousand" were still trapped in the low-lying city.


So, wait, we know he's got 25,000 in the dome.  Does that mean that there are hundreds of thousands still out in the city?  Two days without water and electricity, and rising water levels, you'd think they would be out flagging down search teams.  Surely they're all accounted for, right?  Or is Nagin just estimating?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 01:16:54 PM
Quote from: nacho
The public needs to be more responsible and the government needs to realize that you aren't supposed to make money from public transport.  The point is getting the people where they need to go because employment = taxes.  Throw in sales tax and other shit and we're giving the govt. 50 cents on the dollar.  How dare they complain that Amtrak costs them money.


God. Hallelujah!!! Someone gets it!

*Does sacred African spiritual dance*
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Matt on August 31, 2005, 01:20:49 PM
All I can hear is Led Zeppelin's When The Levee Breaks over and over again.

After Katrina first hit and nothing really seemed to be affected, I was like "hey, this is cool. No big deal. I can still party there in a couple years." But not any more. This is mind-boggling when you think that an entire American city has been laid to waste.

I did see a rather offensive quote in the NY Times this morning (I've got it on RSS feed and I get free copies of the Chicago Tribune, NY Times, Des Moines Register, and Iowa Press-Citizen) about comparing the damage to Hiroshima. There really isn't a fucking comparison between atomic warfare and a city being slowly drowned. At least not an apt comparison.

And Yotoc, come on, the photo comparison said it plainly. We can argue about the will-power of the black race but you can't argue with two photos that show clear discrimination.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: nacho
So, wait, we know he's got 25,000 in the dome.  Does that mean that there are hundreds of thousands still out in the city?  Two days without water and electricity, and rising water levels, you'd think they would be out flagging down search teams.  Surely they're all accounted for, right?  Or is Nagin just estimating?


The problem is that most people are (appearantly) stuck in their attics with a can of beans and a dirty diaper. Rescue teams have been going around cutting holes in all the roofs and searching what they can. They're finding a lot of people, appearantly, but still, there's going to be a lot of people dying in the next few weeks. They need manpower and they need equipment. But everybody's just donating food, which they have way too much of. Why isn't there an emergency fund for these kinds of things, like: "We need 50 boats dear government! Stat!"

Isn't there an emergency fund? Is it not being used yet? Is Bush still on vacation? Where are the Care Bears?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: Tyson
Why isn't there an emergency fund for these kinds of things, like: "We need 50 boats dear government! Stat!"

Isn't there an emergency fund? Is it not being used yet? Is Bush still on vacation? Where are the Care Bears?



The name of the fund is:  We have all that and why hasn't it been mobilized?

The Navy is sending FOUR amphibious vehicles?  What the fuck?  How about 400, retards?  Drop the armed forces in here.  Everyone is just sitting and watching in shock, I guess.

Of course, it doesn't help that, yeah, the head of the snake just got back to DC today and is going to organize a group to look at how we can get help to the gulf states.  Dude, you're a few days late. By the time we decide on how to rush all the manpower down there, people are going to start dying from phase two of this -- disease, lack of water...
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: nacho
Dude, you're a few days late. By the time we decide on how to rush all the manpower down there, people are going to start dying from phase two of this -- disease, lack of water...


Well, this *is* the guy who sat in a classroom for whatever-minutes just staring at "My Pet Goat" after being told that the nation was under attack.

What is wrong with this man? Is he *that* disconnected from reality? A major U.S. city is being blown to bits and he's... On vacation?

"We need a pre-meeting for the pre-meeting for the meeting to discuss how we're going to plan on deciding on how to help New Orleans. Let's go!"
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 02:00:28 PM
Oh my god. New Orleans is underwater and our nation's leader is... Playing Country rock star:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050830/480/capm10208301856

Somebody tell me today is April 1st. Lord.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 02:04:54 PM
Don't worry, he'll be back at 4pm today to discuss what needs to be done.  Give it four days or so and the survivors down there without water or medical attention will have all the manpower they need to pluck them out of 20 foot floodwaters.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 02:10:24 PM
Suddenly I can't tell if you're being serious or ironic...
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 02:42:20 PM
Quote from: Nubbins
Quote from: yotoc
Black people are lazy and will continue to play the part of 'victim' forever.  Here's one even better... I bet some of those people stayed behind just so they could loot.  You don't see them looting food and water, not when they can grab a 32" tv.  They really make me sick.


Oh come on... you don't REALLY believe this do you?  You're just saying this for the shock factor.

If I was back making $14k a year, had no means of transportation and had been inundated with CNN Stormfest after CNN Stormfest time after time again, I'd have stuck around too.  The only reason anyone stayed is because they couldn't possibly imagine how bad things would get.  

Here's one even better... I bet that if I'd been stuck in NOLA and I was wandering around empty streets and found myself in front of an electronics store with shattered windows and 40 PSP's inside surrounded by video games, I'd grab two or three and as many games as I could.  Furthermore, I could find any number of ways to rationalize it:  

Water's going to ruin it eventually anyway, so why not?  

I'll come back and pay for it once everything gets cleaned up.  

These last couple days have been so stressful, I need something to take my mind off the disaster.  

I've already lost everything and the government's going to fuck me out of compensation, so I deserve this.  

Etc., etc., etc.  It would be too tempting not to take something like that when it's staring you in the face, I don't care how hungry I am.  I could be bleeding from 20 different places and a scene like that would give me pause.  Race has nothing to do with it, man.  It's base fucking instinct.


This is the entire problem.  Why in the fuck is this kind of attitude rationalized and accepted by our society.  No, no, no, no no.  You didn't motherfucking earn it.  It doesn't belong to you.  YOU DO NOT DESERVE IT YOU STUPID LAZY COCKSUCKER!  Fucking entitlement mentality is what's ruining this country.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 02:48:23 PM
Unless I'm missing something, Nubbins isn't saying he's *entitled* to grab the PSPs and food like it's a god-given right. He's saying that he's going to get fucked anyways, so he might as well get his worth for it.

Or was that just a red herring? And is this country actually being ruined? Huh?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 02:53:01 PM
Plus, Nubbins, you and I look at the Stormfest and roll our eyes, but NOLA is in a hotspot.  Also, when you evacuate a million people and activate the National Guard, that's a big clue that you should stop rolling your eyes and head for high ground.

I wouldn't have stuck around and I'm a firm believer that nothing exciting will ever happen again.    

I'd loot if I had half the chance.  But no need to rationalize -- I'd do it simply to break the law.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 02:55:25 PM
Quote from: nacho
Calling on the reserves to fill in where Gulf oil is failing is a big step, yeah.  But I just don't see depression.  NYC was our financial HQ and 9/11 only resulted in a blip on the radar.  Even then, when we cried recession, the Repubs said nope.  I don't see where losing NOLA will do any greater damage on money than 9/11.  Oil's a big worry, and those platforms are easier to replace than pumping out the city.

Will losing one American city really spiral us into something terrible?  I wouldn't rank it as a top tier city, either, in terms of importance to the country's well-being.


9/11 was nothing compared to this.  It was a building.  This is an entire city.  Fuck, it's an entire region.  Ruined.  Gone.  It's not worth it to rebuild but if it's not rebuilt it's going to cause a lot of problems.  Our rail system in this country is a joke.  How do you think all the midwest states move their exports?  Most go down the Ohio to the Mississippi.  Now there is no where for it to go.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 02:59:01 PM
So what do you predict, Yotoc?  Give us a breakdown and a timeline.  At what point can I loot Best Buy and at what point can I shoot some of the people on The List.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 02:59:19 PM
Quote from: Tyson
Unless I'm missing something, Nubbins isn't saying he's *entitled* to grab the PSPs and food like it's a god-given right. He's saying that he's going to get fucked anyways, so he might as well get his worth for it.

Or was that just a red herring? And is this country actually being ruined? Huh?


It still doesn't make it right.  They're going to get fucked anyways so lets just shoot this cop in the head.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: nacho
So what do you predict, Yotoc?  Give us a breakdown and a timeline.  At what point can I loot Best Buy and at what point can I shoot some of the people on The List.


It all depends on Anwar, dude.

Honestly?  I think we stand a good chance of everything going to shit by spring.  The fact that they're not really talking about it anywhere on what they're thinking about doing that scares me.  Yes, I know that finding survivors and rescuing them is important but there is a bigger picture here.  You Dems will laugh when I call trickle-down economics in but there is a valid point to it.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 03:04:48 PM
So: My house is underwater, I'm wearing the clothes I put on a week ago, I have, like, $10 in my pocket, I'm hungry, and I could use a goddamn drink. So I'm supposed to walk past an underwater grocery store because it just wouldn't be right to take food and shit that's going to be foul in a week anyways?

Not me. I'd be eating that Wonderbread by the loaf, man. Drop me a Mickey and piss it out in the middle of the interstate.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 03:09:40 PM
Quote from: Tyson
So: My house is underwater, I'm wearing the clothes I put on a week ago, I have, like, $10 in my pocket, I'm hungry, and I could use a goddamn drink. So I'm supposed to walk past an underwater grocery store because it just wouldn't be right to take food and shit that's going to be foul in a week anyways?

Not me. I'd be eating that Wonderbread by the loaf, man. Drop me a Mickey and piss it out in the middle of the interstate.


This is what slays me.  Where did I say anything about taking food?  Hell, there are laws on the books about taking food in emergencies like this.  It's all good.  I'm talking about the ones carrying the giant televisions and assorted electronics out.  How exactly are they supposed to survive with 30 dvd players?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 03:14:30 PM
It's like those post-apocalyptic movies man. Waterworld. Where dirt is like gold! How cool would this be:

"Hey, hey. I got a 2005 Sony DVD player."

"The messiah! All hail!"

*worship*
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 03:20:14 PM
I want to know what happens when the shit hits the fan.  Is it possible to have another serious Depression?  What are we talking about?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: yotoc on August 31, 2005, 03:25:26 PM
I would say a serious depression.  Thank god our economy is as good as it is right now.  If this happened ten years ago...
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 03:30:54 PM
How many people are out of a job due to relocation and flooded offices, etc?

I imagine that some bigger companies will relocate some of their essential divisons to other offices around the nation. Non-national companies with their only offices in NOLA will probably relocate to the surrounding area if they can. Smaller mom-and-pop operations are going to have to work the hand-out circuit until they can either find a new job, set up a new place of business, or move-in with family/friends etc.

Assume worst-case scenario: The area is gone. Uninhabitable. Renamed "Katrina Bay". 500,000 people displaced.

I still don't think it will be that bad. The hand-outs will ease the recovery, for sure. Businesses will set up shop elsewhere. People will move to other cities.

In fact, it could be a good thing if the rebuilding is done by area companies. If a mega-corp (like Halliburton, fuck them and their fucking fuck fucky fuck shit piss cock) gets the contract, it's going to be a huge money hole like Iraq. But if you give all that rebuilding money to local companies, you could rebuild the regional economy as well as the city itself.

It's a chain-reaction: Hire thousands of workers to rebuild the city and clean it up. Bring in cooks to cook for them. Bring in stores for them to get food and supplies at. Build the schools and universites and bring them in, etc etc etc.

It's going to be a big down-payment, but if Bush doesn't fuck it up, this could be a blip on the economic radar. Rebuild New Orleans as the city of the future or something.

Summary: Go New Deal-style on this. Put money in to jobs, not corporation pockets.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: yotoc
I would say a serious depression.  Thank god our economy is as good as it is right now.  If this happened ten years ago...


You're being ironic, right? If you aren't, please explain how the economy is better in 2005 than in 1995 because I was just a fetus in 1995 and lived in Albania or something.

I was under the impression that the mid-to-late 90s were awfully damn good.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 03:44:42 PM
Oh, ten years ago, blah blah, Clinton sucks.  We had a surplus.  And what did we get out of it?  Now we're in debt.

Katrina isn't the straw that'll lead us to a depression.  The Depression in 29 came thanks to a massive income gap and high personal debt... Two things that, sadly, we're seeing today.  So the makings for a Depression are there, but we've set in safeguards so the 29 scenario won't repeat.  FDIC and all that will keep banks from folding, which means the individual doesn't feel a collapse.  The government absorbs it for quite a while until it finally bleeds into our taxes and causes a much grander fall, but that's something that we can string out for many years.  We have a huge cushion that can handle things like this.

I think spring 06 will see gas around that $4 mark and matching inflation, that's all.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 03:45:06 PM
i think the city might as well be abandoned.  maybe not the whole region, but New Orleans is going to take at least 2 years to rebuild, and even then, the tourism is going to take even longer to build back up (NOLA's only real industry).  It was one of the poorest cities to live in, and now it's going to be even worse.  Paralegals make $6 an hour there.  Restaurant managers sometimes pull in 8 or 9.  A factory job might get you 10.  There's going to be a huge housing shortage, the apartment complexes and/or rented houses that did survive are going to simultaneously rise in rent and be deteriorated by the people who live there.  

we're talking millions and millions of dollars just to stabilize, and at that point its going to be quick fixes that could get wiped out in another year or two by another storm.  it's horriffic.  1.5 million homeless.  this is like refugees in an African country or something.  everyone's going to jump the border into the other southern states and start to be a burden on their economies.

Blah.  this is all i can think about right now.  i don't even feel sorry for myself.  i at least was in a position to easily leave the town and not have any real roots there.  I hadn't switched over all my official stuff, hadn't invested any real money there yet, and i've got a couple places to hang out until i figure stuff out.  These other poor fucks are going to be in the astrodome for another 2 or 3 weeks.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on August 31, 2005, 04:45:06 PM
Ho-ho.

(https://greatsociety.org/uploads/./userfiles/nacho/thatsracist.gif)
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 06:20:50 PM
d00d. I already posted that thingy. But that one is just hilarious.

Where are people getting those "OH SNAP!" and "THAT'S RACIST" clips?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 07:27:31 PM
damn looters better stay away from my record collection!  you can't find copies of Dark Side just lying around anymore, ya know!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 07:32:01 PM
Those were yours? Shit. Sorry. Uhh... The tri-tip will wash off, but I think the fire melted the backside a bit. I thought they were pans! Ha ha!
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 07:52:13 PM
no...what about zep IV?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 08:02:29 PM
Toilet paper is scarce man! You can't blame me!
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Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 08:12:31 PM
you're one a them negroes, ain't ya!  no respect for the British invasion whatsoever!

i've also been thinking of small things i've lost today:

sherlock holmes pipe
cameras
all comic books
a pound puppy i've had forever (shut up, his name is spike and he's awesome)
love letters
approx. 100 yards of ethernet cable
pint glasses o' the south collection
my dave Barry "alert reader" certificate
DJ Shadow Private Press Promo Poster
diplomas
13 boxes of floss
picture of me with Kevin Smith
copy of my first novel and short story collection (still exists on computer though, just not in that nice kinko binding)
a lot of tea
backgammon set

eh.  not a total loss. except for that DJ Shadow poster.  that thing was awesome.  and, of course, all the Maxx comics.  

now isn't the time to fret over possessions, but it really did take me forever to find all those maxx comics.  well, now they're in TPB at least.

oh damn! just remembered.  Autographed copy of James Ellroy's memoir.  shit.  

I hereby vow to kill all of Katrina's children unto the 13th generation.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: Cassander
DJ Shadow Private Press Promo Poster


I would have slit my wrists after typing that, man.

Don't worry though. Rest easy knowing that Katrina can't wipe out all the DJ Shadow CDs on the planet.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Cassander on August 31, 2005, 08:29:24 PM
too true.  I got all my CDs.  that would have been a devastating loss.  of course, they're always in my car, so.  but has anyone seen my jar full of baby teeth floating around?
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Tyson on August 31, 2005, 08:37:47 PM
I ran out of shotgun ammo so, you know, look for deer with 10 teeth in its brain.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: Goblin_Queen on September 01, 2005, 12:07:43 AM
I'm sorry if I'm a little off topic here, but after I read Yotoc's comments, I couldn't really focus on anything else until I said something.  I can't believe that he could be so disturbingly racist.  People like him really kill me.  Making generalizations about black people in general is WRONG.  I mean, yes there are people who are lazy retards but it has nothing to do with race.  You think people would risk their lives over a fucking DVD player?  Let's think about this for a second shall we?  These people didn't think that the storm would be nearly as bad as it was, in fact, the only reason everything went to hell was because of the unpredicted multiple levee breaks.  Not only that, what kind of people would go through all the trouble of stealing stuff like that?  POOR PEOPLE!  People with nothing to call their own and no homes to go to.  People who think, "maybe I can get some money for this or something because I have NOTHING left".  Stealing is not right, no matter the circumstance.  I'm not rationalizing anything, but to say black people are lazy, and whatever other hateful things you said, is just as wrong as saying that they aren't responsible for their own actions.  It all falls under the category of making generalizations, which I take quite personal.
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Post by: Nubbins on September 01, 2005, 01:38:49 AM
Quote from: Cassander

sherlock holmes pipe
cameras
all comic books
a pound puppy i've had forever (shut up, his name is spike and he's awesome)
love letters
approx. 100 yards of ethernet cable
pint glasses o' the south collection
my dave Barry "alert reader" certificate
DJ Shadow Private Press Promo Poster
diplomas
13 boxes of floss
picture of me with Kevin Smith
copy of my first novel and short story collection (still exists on computer though, just not in that nice kinko binding)
a lot of tea
backgammon set

eh.  not a total loss. except for that DJ Shadow poster.  that thing was awesome.  and, of course, all the Maxx comics.  


Man, I am really sorry.  I am a collector of weird crap too and as such, I can only imagine what losing it to something as stupid as water must be like.  I will be happy to burn/copy copies of anything that I have that you may have lost, and yeah... they're just possessions, but there's something to be said about spending days/weeks/months/years accumulating them selectively and it really sucks that you lost all that shit.  I'm just glad you were smart/fortunate enough to get the fuck out when you did and that you're alive to gain some perspective afterwards.  Let me know if there's anything you need... particularly if it relates to the Wabash Cannonball album of nothing but songs about trains... because I have one that I've never listened to and probably never will.
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Post by: Nubbins on September 01, 2005, 02:06:55 AM
Quote from: yotoc
This is what slays me.  Where did I say anything about taking food?  Hell, there are laws on the books about taking food in emergencies like this.  It's all good.  I'm talking about the ones carrying the giant televisions and assorted electronics out.  How exactly are they supposed to survive with 30 dvd players?


Nowhere, actually... unless you count the part where you said they were taking everything but food and water.  Apparently the black people in your area are able to exist on nothing but televisions and stereo equipment.  You didn't say anything about people taking food.  What you said was that black people are lazy and this situation just goes to prove it.

More specifically, you said this:

Quote from: yotoc
Ready to hate me again people?

Black people are lazy and will continue to play the part of 'victim' forever. Here's one even better... I bet some of those people stayed behind just so they could loot. You don't see them looting food and water, not when they can grab a 32" tv. They really make me sick.

Tyson, that link was about the most insulting thing I've ever read. Ever. We don't need a hurricane to keep the black man down. They're doing a good job of that all by themselves.


Not only are you able to completely negate the fact that a portion of this "looting" is of perishable goods people need to survive, you actually go so far as to assert that there are people stupid enough to loot, yet intelligent enough to assess that a possibility for looting existed a week ago.  This is a sentiment, which goes without saying, that has absolutely no basis in proof whatsoever.  I am literally unable to wrap my mind around this idea.

I'm not sticking up for the looting.  I can't possibly begin to understand how a plasma television could do anyone any good when they don't even have a fucking house to take it to.  All I was saying was that I could understand where some of these people the media are so eager to label as "looters" are coming from, provided I found myself in a similar situation.  The temptation to do what these people are doing is something I can relate to for any number of reasons.  I'm not saying it's right and I'm not validating their actions... I am just able to say, "Yeah... I can see that there is a situation where I might do the same thing."   I fail to see how race has anything to do with your argument at all.  Of course, maybe because I'm a white man trying to relate to the actions of a largely black population in a dire situation, that equates to validation of some kind.  I don't know.

Looting is bad.  I agree.  But what the fuck do you expect, man?  When poor, black areas are devastated by stuff like this, then you inevitably have poor, black people trying to take advantage of it.  That's all that's going on here.  You put the same conditions into a stereotypically rich, white neighborhood and the same goddamn thing would be happening.  I'm not criticising your assessment of looting, merely your ignorant, cynical views about race.
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Post by: Tyson on September 01, 2005, 03:07:29 AM
From people who are actually in the area watching the looting, they're noticing these groups looting:

White
Black
Cops (no, really)
Young
Old

Are we happy now? Let's assign blame to a race! That's always the easiest thing to do, no? Makes it all convenient.

And look! No Asians being widely reported.

Now, wait... Where are these groups typically on the economic scale?

Oh... Shit. It has to do with economic status? Say it ain't so! The people who couldn't afford to pick up their bags and take a car out of the city are.... Still there? Shocking.

If I was still in New Orleans, I wouldn't be able to get an ATM, would I? What would I do about food? I'd loot as much food as I could and then loot expensive shit and sell it to people with money so I could use said money to buy food off of people who stockpiled.

Survival, man.

Ok, seriously now: Cops are looting stores. Cops. COPS. Sworn protectors of the public. What the hell is going on? There are cops looting gun stores and then using said guns to ward looters away from stores and then backing up *stolen* SUVs to load up.

There's shit going on that none of us will ever comprehend (I hope).

As far as people are concerned down there, it's Waterworld.
Title: Glassbottom Boat Tours of my House now Available--$5
Post by: nacho on September 01, 2005, 10:30:22 AM
Quote from: Tyson
From people who are actually in the area watching the looting, they're noticing these groups looting:

White
Black
Cops (no, really)
Young
Old


Oh, thank god.  Now we can blame the cops instead of the blacks!  I'm glad you found an even more despised minority, Tyson.

Living in a pristine white suburb (except for the family at 435 -- "They're KILLING property values!") and working in an 80% black city, I have to say that I hope nothing serious ever happens in DC.  It'll be like "If I should die on the Jersey Front" around here.  

Queenie, Yotoc lives in small town Ohio.  The only black people he sees these days are on TV.  I would be equally concerned about how the media, generally, portrays blacks.  America is all about the middle, in terms of numbers and action.  We've seen that these last eight years.  We have a serious racial problem growing in this nation being fed to everyone every day.  Moreso than usual.  This shit has to come to a head, and I'm rather worried about that.  


Nubbins -- looting isn't bad!  It's just against the law.
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Post by: Goblin_Queen on September 01, 2005, 11:10:34 AM
Quote from: nacho


Queenie, Yotoc lives in small town Ohio.  The only black people he sees these days are on TV.  I would be equally concerned about how the media, generally, portrays blacks.  America is all about the middle, in terms of numbers and action.  We've seen that these last eight years.  We have a serious racial problem growing in this nation being fed to everyone every day.  Moreso than usual.  This shit has to come to a head, and I'm rather worried about that.  


I'm sort of at a loss for words.  I know that Yotoc lives in small town Ohio, and I know that the media tends to put their own spin on things, but really, It's difficult for me to be OK with those reasons.  I'd expect him to be more rational.  The statements he's made are simply racist.  We all need to use our own judgement especially when we're getting images like those seen in the media today.  He wasn't even referring directly to the people he saw doing the looting, he was making blanket statements about black people in general.  I feel really disrespected.  I don't usually take this sort of thing to heart, but come on, why would he say something so ignorant when I'm a black person and I don't display the characteristics that he claims we all share.

Also, I know about the growing racial tension.  I live right in the middle of where the riots broke out in 1992.  I know people who were looting.  In the future, there's going to be a bunch of violence and no results, just like it's always been.  I wonder if anyone else knows what it means to be a member of a minority group that shows so little a chance of ever fully becoming productive normal members of society. I have so little faith.