Author Topic: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?  (Read 456 times)

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Offline RottingCorpse

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Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« on: March 08, 2021, 11:48:29 AM »
Nacho, I need your history brain. Are there any movies set around the Fall of Constantinople?

I've been working on this project I've been calling "Medieval Mad Max" for about a year now. The more research I've done, the more it's shifted into "Ottoman Mad Max." (Or more accurately, "Holy Roman Empire Mad Max.")

My original research was constructed around the earlier crusades, but setting it around the Fall Of Constantinople made all the various story pieces I want to use (mostly) fit into the historical era of the mid 1400s. Most of the movies I started looking at were far earlier in the middle ages. Kingdom of Heaven, Seventh Seal, Robin Hood, etc.) I can't think of any movies that deal with the end of the Holy Roman Byzantine Empire. I'm curious to see how other filmmakers/writers handle it.

Anyway, medieval movie thread!!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 09:19:31 AM by RottingCorpse »

Offline nacho

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 02:32:06 PM »
A...new thread at GS? A cock goes down your throat!

The Holy Roman Empire isn't related to the Roman Empire. It was formed by Charlemagne and the pope in 800 AD. The eastern Roman Empire (to which they referred to themselves as just the Roman Empire, and were a direct continuation of the main Empire proper -- Byzantium is a modern term) stood apart from the HRE (which, itself, wasn't actually organized or a serious entity till about 1000 or so). The HRE was so self-involved in their own fuckery that the fall of the Eastern Empire was barely on their radar. Of course, the collapse of the eastern Empire was a long, slow, centuries-long series of fuck-ups. By the time Constantinople fell, the "Roman Empire" mainly just consisted of...Constantinople.

But don't confuse the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire. They are totally different and wholly unrelated entities. That's why 19th century scholars dubbed the post-400s Eastern Roman Empire "Byzantium" in history books so it wouldn't confuse stupid people.

Technically, the Holy Roman Empire maintained until the Napoleonic wars. He's the one who officially dissolved it. So it lasted from 800-1806. 

There are lots of books set around/before/during/after the fall (and also alternate history fantasy/sci-fi/horror), but not many movies or films. Which is good news for you. There are some Turkish-language films but I've never seen them.


Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2021, 09:18:39 AM »
But don't confuse the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire. They are totally different and wholly unrelated entities. That's why 19th century scholars dubbed the post-400s Eastern Roman Empire "Byzantium" in history books so it wouldn't confuse stupid people.

Filing this under "Don't fuck up the names of kingdoms/eras around the history major."

Believe it or not (and why should you), I do know the difference between the two and have simply gotten in the bad habit of calling the Byzantine Empire the Holy Roman Empire because, as you say, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. And *technically,* my character is from the west and this whole project started out as a riff on the earlier Crusades... but you're right, I mean Byzantine Empire when talking about movies and books about this era.

I've been both excited and a little unnerved that people haven't tried to make movies about this era. However, I think that has a lot to do with Western bias. At least as far as my research goes, the Ottomans come off as far more organized and tolerant in this era... if you except the practice of letting the royal children kill each other to decide who's going to be the next Sultan.

But yeah, I feel like done right, I'm working in a place with not a whole lot of comparison. Though posting about it on GS means the North Korean version will be out next month.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 12:22:46 PM by RottingCorpse »

Offline Nubbins

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2021, 10:22:00 AM »
Though posting about it on GS means the North Korean version will be out next month.

Right? I always wonder why there are between 100-1,000 guests online on this site every time I visit. Now I know... they're stealing your IP!
8=o tation

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2021, 01:24:07 PM »
Im really angling for Kim Jong Un Paul WS Anderson stole my IP to be the epithet carved on my headstone.

EDIT:
I came up with a funnier punchline.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 12:24:23 PM by RottingCorpse »

Offline nacho

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2021, 09:32:10 AM »
Quote
my character is from the west and this whole project started out as a riff on the earlier Crusades

Also worth noting that the "Holy Roman Empire" is actually just central Europe (today's Germany, Austria, etc. and northern Italy) and was not an organized political entity that fought in the Crusades or maintained an army.

By the time Constantinople fell, the "Holy Roman Empire" was basically "Germany."

Quote
I've been both excited and a little unnerved that people haven't tried to make movies about this era. However, I think that has a lot to do with Western bias. At least as far as my research goes, the Ottomans come off as far more organized and tolerant in this era...

Very much a western bias. It's both ancient political (the Romans in Constantinople were constantly trying to re-conquer the west) and religious (the Great Schism continues to be a problem in church politics).

As for the Ottomans... It's probably simplest to say that the Islamic sphere was having a glorious renaissance during the Christian sphere's dark ages and, when the Christian sphere began its glorious renaissance, the Islamic sphere started its dark ages.

The reasons for this are the usual -- war, famine, pestilence, political division, etc.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2021, 12:30:57 PM »
Quote
my character is from the west and this whole project started out as a riff on the earlier Crusades

Also worth noting that the "Holy Roman Empire" is actually just central Europe (today's Germany, Austria, etc. and northern Italy) and was not an organized political entity that fought in the Crusades or maintained an army.

By the time Constantinople fell, the "Holy Roman Empire" was basically "Germany."

As far as my latest outline goes, I'm very much in Eastern Europe. The 1444 Battle of Varna where the Byzantine's got a royal ass-whooping seems to figure largely into the eventual 1453 ka-blammo siege. It also ties vaguely into a late crusade and also gives me an excuse to fuck around with Prague and Romania.

The western bias is kind of a shame, because it's a fucking fascinating era.

Offline nacho

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Re: Constantinople (not Istanbul)?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2021, 01:27:50 PM »
Correct on all points!