Author Topic: Arab World Protests  (Read 45761 times)

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Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2011, 09:06:31 PM »
Just once I'd like to see the world do it's own thing without us sticking our nose in it.

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2011, 10:55:34 AM »
Just once I'd like to see the world do it's own thing without us sticking our nose in it.

Like everything before 1941? Because that record was stellar!

You could even argue that we're here now sticking our nose in everything (as we have been since 1950) because we let the world do its own thing.  Since then, it's been one, long, mismanaged janitorial duty brought on by post-colonialism. What would the world have been like if the European powers had eased out of colonialism?

You could go back to Versailles and Wilson's peace plan -- that certainly would have averted (or, at least, delayed) a second World War, which would have led to a gentler devolution of the European colonies. If we'd stuck our nose in sooner, the world would have been a very different place.

Not to say that America is Brave and Beautiful... It's just that our version of hubris involves getting fat and drunk and rolling around happily in shit as opposed to trying to put boots on the ground and conquer the universe because Uncle Bertie insulted Cousin Bettie.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 11:03:04 AM by nacho »

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2011, 11:27:54 AM »
And, you know -- let's compare! America, 1950-onwards. The world's Keystone Kop vs. Europe fucking subjugating the known world, 1500-1950.

We've stuck our nose in lots of places, but all of them are colonial fallout zones.  Korea is communist paranoia, but it even has roots in European shenanigans in China and the Japanese aping the European model (and feeling compelled to compete). Vietnam is a French colonial fuckup on a level that blows the mind. Even our dealings in the Mideast are tripping over loose ends left by colonialism.

Most of this world has been brutally abandoned without support.  The colonial powers let these colonies off without any sort of support and, in the case of most powers, infrastructure. For nearly 500 years they raped the entire planet and created a vast underclass ruled by a minority super-class and, when it got too expensive, they pulled out overnight and left everyone to fend for themselves. The whole face of Africa, the Mideast, large swaths of South America, and much of Asia is because the Europeans stuck much much more than their noses into things and then abandoned it all with a shrug and a tut-tut, isn't that a shame.

Then here comes young, misguided, child-like America. A superpower only by virtue of the fact that it's the last man standing after a cataclysmic global war. What does a child do if it's handed the reins of the world? With that sort of good-natured hubris, it tries to make things right... Whatever "right" is. Everybody should be like America, right? Because we're free and rich and happy... And why aren't they? We were burned by our early colonial efforts, so we know colonies are wrong. Despite appearances otherwise, we have no stomach for serious military commitment. War for us is, through those child-like eyes, more of a game. We get scared when the real face is shown to us (though, typically, we're too deep in the game to extract ourselves properly when we do lose heart).

With the world basically shattered, we were allowed to indulge all of our childlike whims. The world is still shattered from the World War era. Europe has just this decade started to properly emerge from the ashes. We had 50 years to indulge every fantasy and so, now, we're run by a weird ultra-capitalist corporate oligarchy. That's the direction we've been going in since the 1880's, but it's always been checked by our own limitations. Our insular, individualistic, carefree attitude. Our second banana status to the rest of the world. Wilson failed at Versailles because we were a joke. The adult world saw us as the child we were. But when all those adults died on the sacrificial altar of fascism... Well, there was no one left to criticize us. No one else to slow us down.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2011, 02:20:04 PM »
If I'm reading that correctly, you're saying the USA is the Michael York of "Spaceship Earth's" Logan's Run? Or maybe the kid in Children of the Corn?

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Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2011, 05:10:39 PM »
I think we started out Michael York but ended up Children of the Corn.  Outlander!!!

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #110 on: March 29, 2011, 10:43:28 AM »
Okay, okay. So enough about Libya. What about the other countries we're ignoring?

In Syria, the cabinet just resigned and hundreds of political prisoners were freed (this after last week's brutal crackdown).

Egypt's starting to tip again. The interior ministry building was burned down by striking police.

Jordan and Yemen have turned into lawless freak-out zones.


Offline Cassander

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2011, 08:31:56 PM »
I've got a buddy who is getting deployed in May to go back to Iraq for a sort of "last out/lights out" tour, but I'm getting more nervous about a possible floating involvement all over the region.  I imagine people in Kuwait, Dubai, and Turkey are feeling a little nervous, right?  not so much militarily but as far as refugees go?  Then you got Sudan in there, too.  Jesus. 
You ain't a has been if you never was.

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2011, 01:26:45 PM »
Well, Libya's heating up. Rebels have stormed Ghadafi's compound, and conflicting rumors say his son (and successor) is in custody. Looks like we're into the end-game.

Offline Disco Dust

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2011, 01:36:54 PM »
Will he do a Hitler or a Saddam?

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2011, 01:37:28 PM »
Saddam. Hitler's out took bravery.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2011, 01:43:21 PM »
Yeah, Ghadaffi will do what it takes to save his own skin.

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2011, 01:49:10 PM »
What a silly question! In the 65 years since Hitler, has any ousted dictator gone with that option? I can't think of any...and there's nothing special about Ghadaffi.

Offline Disco Dust

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2011, 10:38:27 PM »
Allende went out in the same manner (proven again recently by extensive forensic work on his remains), but whether he can be be classified as a dictator is quite contentious.

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #118 on: August 24, 2011, 07:57:39 AM »
You mean the democratically elected president who was overthrown three years later by a coup? If Allende was a dictator, then that means Pinochet is a liberator! Hail Great Father!

Offline nacho

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Re: Arab World Protests
« Reply #119 on: August 24, 2011, 11:24:44 AM »
Update from Libya:  Nobody knows what's going on.

I gave up after checking out six newspapers, all of which are pretty much saying, well, shit's going down, and something something, and... Oil fields! And stuff.