Author Topic: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS  (Read 21436 times)

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Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2010, 04:19:36 PM »
Is that a joke?  I haven't seen the episode in about 15 years, so I don't remember all the particulars.

(But, if it's not, the phrase dates back to the 19th C.)

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2010, 05:48:17 PM »
I didn't actively hate "The Man Trap." (Though Missus RC did. It made her bad episode list which also includes "The Carbomite Maneuver.) However, the whole plot device was handled way better in "What Are Little Girls Made Of."

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2010, 05:50:16 PM »
I'd consider Man Trap one of the worst episodes.  Though the worst episode is Devil in the Dark... However, it earns that because it's a thin piece of shit and it's been rehashed in every sci-fi show since the 60's so, you know, 50 years later, I want to go back in time and murder whoever first used that storyline.

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2010, 09:20:48 PM »
I thought "Squire of Gothos" was a way bigger turd than "Man Trap."

(Note: This is the nerdiest New Years Eve discussion ever.)

Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2011, 05:57:59 PM »

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2011, 02:43:59 PM »

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2011, 07:41:02 PM »
Oh ho! Get me this once it airs.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/pioneersoftelevision/pioneering-programs/science-fiction/

I'm limited to what a small group of niche pirates feels is worthy to post, but if I see it I'll grab it.

Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2011, 11:24:11 AM »

Offline Cassander

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2011, 02:18:55 PM »
I love how the Sci Fi list is taking over all aspects of my life.  So now is the time to finally bite the bullet and watch the first three Trek movies, which I've never seen, as well as Space Seed.  All in the hopper now. 
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Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2011, 02:56:08 PM »
Aha!  Good, because you'll have to be well armed to handle my insane defense of The Motion Picture when Wrath of Khan and even Search for Spock are far superior.

Watch Space Seed in between TMP and WoK. The uniforms/acting/hokeyness in TMP will have you ready for an hour of Adventures in Polyester before you shift wildly into oncoming traffic with WoK.



Offline Cassander

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2011, 05:20:13 PM »
I was actually planning to do the reverse since I haven't seen an episode of TOS since i was a freshman in high school then guage the jump to the big screen, but your method is tempting as well.  Hmm.

also interesting is the fact that Plinkett made TMP sound like some crazy long thing when it's really just 2 hours. 
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Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2011, 01:38:35 AM »
TMP is a weird journey, man. Yeah, it's a short movie.  It's boring. It has shit that makes you go, huh? But... Yeah, watch it. Watch it with the whole franchise in mind.  It's the last Star Trek ever filmed. Everything after is a different beast.  And you'll see that when you watch the first three movies.  WoK and SfS are, like, huh? TMP tried to capture the original series.

That said, Space Seed somehow transcends the original series.  It is through and through the formula, but...there's something there. You can see why the WoK folks sat down and thought, woah, this is what we're going to work with...

Offline Cassander

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2011, 09:44:28 PM »
Actually, I felt really displeased by "Space Seed," which I decided to watch first.  Of course there are the glaring things like why is the whole ship rigged with anasthesia gas?  why do kirk and pals consistently play right into Khan's hands just to show that they're more noble?  how the hell does Kirk fool Khan and beat the shit out of him if he really is 5 times stronger?  but those are just silly cherry picking questions.

the main problem I had is that Khan's motives don't make sense at any point.  If he and the other supermen were dictators and just evil and want to conquer just for conquering's sake, as is first implied, then why leave earth?  Where were they headed?  Next, if Khan and the others were smart enough to be able to control entire quadrants of the Earth, wouldn't he have more sense than to just comandeering a starship and invading the nearest planet?  Wouldn't he be interested in seeing how the whole Federation worked and whether he could control it?  I think he does say something about conquering the universe instead of just a world or something, but he should know he's not going to get far at all vs. a superior force, right? 

THEN he wants just one more person to be on his side, as if one of the crew could possibly help him with all the training he'd need to run the Enterprise.  This sets up a nice little morality crisis for the crew, but doesn't do much else.  But, it doesn't matter, because after being beaten into submission by Kirk just once, Khan is ready to throw in the towel.  But, hey, it's cool cause Kirk decides to let this madman loose just because "reorienting them" would be a shame or a waste.  Huh?  So let's let them all breed amongst themselves into even stronger humans who are going to be even more jealous of what they don't have...and Khan seems fine with this too.  Whatever, man, I just want to be in charge no matter what. 

There are no real dilemmas here, and Khan may look like a more complicated villain than some other TOS baddies (based on what RC has been saying), but overall I found the whole thing a set-up to make Kirk and the crew look like Big Boys because we know right from wrong.
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Offline nacho

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2011, 01:47:38 AM »
I thought Space Seed explained why he left Earth?  Maybe it's in WoK.  The superhumans lost the Eugenics Wars and were destroyed.  Khan and his cadre went missing and fled Earth in the Botany Bay. Which, yes, doesn't really make sense because there was nowhere to go. But that fact is retconned -- First Contact coming over a hundred years after the Eugenics Wars isn't canon till TNG. There's talk of early space travel and apparent destinations for folks in the first season of TOS, so, if you've watched the whole season up to Space Seed, it's implied that there were tenuous little colonies to go to.

And he read the ship's library while in the sick bay, so presumably he did know how the Federation worked.

Overall, though, you're working within the confines of a very strict, very predictable formula.  All the flaws you point out are copy-paste into every Star Trek script from 1966 to 2005. Hell, Space Seed's out of the first season... they hadn't even settled on which uniforms were which at that point, let alone work out the concept that there's a big fleet out there and a very central federation running it all and juggling hundreds of planets and two tense DMZ's. All aspects mentioned almost in passing till 1979 when the budgets and the actual storytelling ability in the genre are able to deal with that sort of thing.

Now, taken alone, Space Seed is just another episode.  Easily one of the best, but still hokey 60's sci-fi. Why I encourage people to pair it with WoK is to see how the modern day studios took that formula -- and the best villain from TOS -- and turned it into an awesome action romp in space. The Khan from the movie and his little team are very different beasts on the big screen. As is the very nature of the conflict (a submarine battle between two wily captains, no clumsy fight scenes required). The true greatness of WoK is that Kirk and Khan never see each other physically, and only face each other once for a few minutes over a viewscreen. Because, hey, you're right -- they're superhumans. Nobody could win against them in a fight. And they'll never give up. In fact, all of your complaints are touched on -- right down to why Khan sees the trees and not the forest.

Offline Cassander

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Re: RC Boldly Goes - Star Trek TOS
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2011, 09:56:17 PM »
Okay, so I finished WoK tonight after abandoning it in the middle about a week or two ago and claiming in a text to Nacho that it "sucked."  Now I've seen the whole thing and can state that the movie doesn't suck, really, but there's a lot that has to be overlooked.  One, for me, is Montalban himself trying to put the "b" in "subtle."  He makes Shatner look understated.  Actually, Shatner is kind of understated in this one.  Not a bad performance, but, jeez.  Khan is just a terrible bad guy, in my opinion.  His backstory conflicts with how he actually plays out, and his blind hatred for Kirk just seems to ring hollow.  What we really needed was a good little vignette about how much he suffered on the planet, something to make him look like a badass with a chip on his shoulder instead of a mad freak with a unilateral focus on revenge.  A lot of stuff I've read brings up Ahab, but I feel like it's a pretty grainy facscimile.

The Hunt for red october Enterprise v. Reliant stuff is pretty cool but as a result McCoy and Uhura are downgraded a great deal.  I for one love seeing McCoy in there a lot no matter the situation, and I don't feel like he got a lot of stuff to do in this one.  The evolution of Kirk from a monster-wrangling swinging dick to a rough-around-the-edges old sea dog with family issues is great, but his son David seems like a fresh graduate from the Mark Hamill School of Acting and Being Annoying. 

Overall I really understand the significance of this movie in the Trek franchise history...they might've been one bad sequel away from an abandoned franchise, no?...but just because it's the best of a weird bunch doesn't make it a great movie. 

ah, well.  Onto Search for Spock in a week or so.  Watching all these franchise things in a row over the past few weeks actually has me chafing.  I'm getting a little worn down, I think.  Thank god for Jason Statham movies and Timothy Olyphant TV shows to break up the monotony!
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