Author Topic: Obama's Fascist TV Takeover Thread  (Read 19042 times)

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Offline Nubbins

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Re: Obama's Fascist TV Takeover Thread
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2008, 02:17:20 PM »
Yeah, well... I disagree.  By that rationale, every government falls under fascism.

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Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism (including collectivism and populism based on the nationalist values); Third Position (including class collaboration, corporatism, economic planning, mixed economy, national socialism, national syndicalism, protectionism,); totalitarianism (including dictatorship, holism, major social interventionism, and statism); and militarism. Fascism opposes communism, liberalism, conservatism and international socialism.

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Third Position is a nationalist political strand that emphasises its opposition to both communism and capitalism. The name 'Third Position' is derived from the school of thought presenting itself as being "beyond Capitalism and Communism" and "neither Left nor Right."

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Offline nacho

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Re: Obama's Fascist TV Takeover Thread
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2008, 02:30:54 PM »
Every government does, in a way, yes.  So you can easily dismiss Fascist America...

But then we have candidates like Robert Kennedy, who championed equality despite race or creed, and George McGovern, who was a rare voice of reason on foreign affairs.  When you look at 68 and 72, and what we've done since then, the fascist example is strong.  Reagan was a cult of personality, and wildly insular.  Clinton was a southern populist.  Bush is a xenophobic nightmare.  We had our backlash Carter Presidency, which then we decided not to support at the local/Congressional level.

I'm not saying America is the Fourth Reich.  I'm just saying that we took the "best" of fascism and put our uber-capitalist spin on it.  The same way FDR was, essentially, a dictator.  He was a benevolent dictator, and what we needed at the time.  Our unique brand of fascism follows the very stripped down, basic definition, but is also something well outside of the definition because we continue to have elections and we do still buck against oppression and control.  But, especially in the last eight years, we've been walking a tightrope.  The Patriot Act and successor is a serious throw towards the fascist side of things. 

So let's say fascism is used in America, like everything else, as more of an advertising tool.  Slogans and signs, pandering nonsense and empty promises.  But, overall, the larger machine is ticking away as it always has since we hyper-industrialized in the 1940's.


 

Offline Cassander

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Re: Obama's Fascist TV Takeover Thread
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2008, 09:16:16 PM »
ah, i see the problem here.  some people think of fascism is overall evil and will eventually bring about a Big Brother type of police state, where the only real goal is control and ego-satisfaction.  others want to say that fascism can be a subtle motif that can guide us into acting out in certain predictable responses that will ultimately sustain the country's interests above others with little shame. 

I guess you could say America has a "transferrable Fascism."

But i'm all about how America continues to defy real hard and fast rules.  so i think we should label America's brand of democracy "Americanism."   Americanism relies heavily on an overall united front against most other cultures, hence our kaleidoscopic media tastes, but also on nepotism (or, i guess, some people woud call it cronyism).  we try to hold on to whatever is making us personally and those close to us (friends, family, whatever sub-culture we are a part of) the most comfortable or the most money, often to the point of holding on even after the ride has stopped. 
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Offline Nubbins

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Re: Obama's Fascist TV Takeover Thread
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2008, 02:40:43 PM »
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that our form of government is a mish mash of all kinds of different philosophies and ideas.  To call it purely a Democratic or Socialist or whatever is inaccurate. 

Do I think there are elements of fascism in our government and the candidates running for president?  Sure, I guess so, in as much as wanting better for our country and our people falls under the description of fascism.  Do I think anyone or anything in or about our government is the "embodiment" of fascism?  Hell no... not even close.
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