Author Topic: Conspiracy Roundup  (Read 28070 times)

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Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2020, 09:59:55 AM »
So RC mocked me the other day for my conspiracy theory that the COVID crisis is actually an attempt to further centralize the government.

I don't think COVID has been engineered, per se. I do think it was because a bat had a one night stand during a business trip in Singapore and then went home and drove his children to school.

I just think the government is taking advantage of an opportune crisis. And, really, shouldn't we all? We should all be working on our dream projects!

So our scenario now is that the states have had to take the lead on lockdowns and other "draconian" actions while the federal government has been wishy washy and strange, getting snarked at by the media, getting bad op-eds, the usual. The "liberal media" demonizing poor Donald is how this will be played out eventually because when the Feds swoop in to "reopen America" and "Save the Economy," it's going to be all the sweeter for them. Mark my words -- the media will change their tone after America Reopens and they'll be more pro-Trump than ever.

Already, the themes are there. The "we'll get through this together" stuff is the theme of every TV commercial from Kaiser to Nissan, and the mainstream news is shifting from 50% "blame trump" to 50% opera singers on Youtube cheering us up. Watching the nightly news -- program and commercials -- is like watching the cheerful Nazi newsreels in 1945.

When the Feds do swoop in to save the day, the blame game shifts to the people who "caused te economic crisis" (i.e., the states.) The Feds will cite that they didn't have the right toolbox of laws and powers to adequately step in and flatten the curve like other countries did. They'll say they need more emergency powers in place. But, now, they need to save us all, and so they shall...

The precedent for this is all through our history. Take the recession panics at the start of the 20th Century that led to the creation of the Federal Reserve and the nationalization ("centralization") of our banking system. The Feds let the states wallow and wallow and then, finally, "reluctantly," had to swoop in to save the day. Yay! Saviors! Happy days are here again!

Of course, the motivation here is far more sinister. Like Nixon, Trump's after making himself better and stronger. He's guaranteed himself another four years. Biden was a lost cause before this, but now it might as well be that Trump is running unopposed. If this does prove cyclical for the next two years, or if we do slide into another Depression (with the states to blame), then that secures Trump's power base in 2024. He'll call the shots in that election, as well. Hopefully for someone he anoints and not FDR-style, not that either situation is acceptable.

Now, RC says that we'll rise up in the streets before all this happens. But that sort of misses the narrative here. Yes, we'll rise up in the streets... When Trump says he wants to reopen America on "X" date and the States refuse. We'll rise up against the states and for Trump.

We're already doing this to a degree. The #reopenamerica movement, calls to fire Fauci and the task force doctors, flaunting state regulations with gatherings and parties... Were already starting to rise up in exactly the way Trump wants us to.

Let's look deeper at who's been the most impacted by this -- service workers, gig workers. i.e., young people. Young people who are very fickle in this generation. The people impacted the worst financially are the anti-Trumpers who are also the people who are always looking for a savior and will take any savior they get because...they feel like they deserve it. How many times have we complained about this entitled generation, RC? The revolution is in their hands. Do you think the entitled generation will rise up if Trump saves them by extending benefits, creating stimulus programs, forgiving rents, and/or doing any of te number of things people like Caesar an other dictators and other demagogues throughout human history did to win over the fickle young generation to their cause?

The "we'll rise up" argument assumes that our youth of today are made of stronger and sterner stuff than any youth generation in recorded history and that they will be the ones to break the chain of disaster -- dictator -- savior.

Has that been your takeaway as a college teacher?

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2020, 01:32:47 PM »
RE: Biden... He's DOA. In fact he's so irrelevant at this point, I won't be the least bit surprised if the DNC isn't having conversations right now about how to get somebody else that's not Bernie in there.

"Rising up in the streets" is totally misinterpreting what I was saying in our text thread the other day. I wasn't talking about a "riots and anarchy" style revolution. As you say, these kids want everything handed to them without having to do the real heavy lifting. (They want it to look like they worked their asses off though. This is important.)  I'm talking about a coup, perhaps done within the system but possibly with combat, based on parliamentary action and (probably) civil war. More of a Bolshevik revolution than an Arab Spring.

Remember, I kept referencing Oliver Cromwell the other day. Trump is Charles I here. All his policies are moving away from what all these complacent kids want. I can't see him embracing student loan forgiveness, universal basic income and health care, climate reform, and all the other quasi-socialist policies that, yes, today's college kids indeed lean toward... even the conservative confederate flag waving kids in WV. (Racist doesn't always equal stupid. We armchair liberals would do well to remember that.) The Trump well is far too poisoned. He could maybe offer these policies up and get a weird consensual complacency, but the animus against him will remain. The throttle on the Trump train is simply too hot to hold without a complete U-Turn that I believe Trump is psychologically incapable of.

I don't know who Cromwell is in this situation, but they'll likely be someone in Congress or the Senate (who may not even be around yet) who will rally enough of a base to be a threat to Trump's ridiculously incompetent and self serving status quo. (Yes they're all self-serving and incompetent, but Trump is too narcissistic to hide that behind experts. He has to be the face of everything.) Like the other Cromwell*, 21st Century Cromwell will be reformist and religious. They will likely be just as fascist at Trump, but not really as corrupt. They'll simply want to clean house of years of corruption by big business. The media will love them because  Cromwell-21 will by necessity, be as charismatic (and initially divisive) as Trump.

And as you say, this new dictator will get all the kids behind them because Cromwell-21 will free the kids of all their debt. (That's what they want. Freedom to them is that everything is free. College, movies, music, books, healthcare, travel, all of it. They think it's their right.) And they'll be social media say enough to make the kids feel like they're really making change with minimal effort. They'll use the way Bernie and Warren took far left ideas an made them palatable to the middle, and "hyper-normalize" it to attract moderates to their cause. (The old Teddy Roosevelt "Trump Buster" line will suddenly seem attractive to middle class folks promised low interest rates and a modicum of 20th century capitalist-style happiness for the next 20+ years.) The older folks who want the security offered by Cromwell-21 will also buy into it.  Remember, Cromwell-21 does not need consensus. They only need consent by a majority. Trump has proven that.

You and I are too fat and happy. (And moderating to the right in our middle age.) We think fixing the economy will make everyone all love Trump and fall in line because it allows us to return to the status quo. It'll make us love the reform you're talking about. Cromwell-21 will be smart enough to set policies that keep the middle class happily in a quasi-capitalist illusory state. But poor and hungry is still poor and hungry if the same system stays in place across the board.

So you're right: The kids up won't rise up. But those interested in consolidating power will do so in the name of righteousness. (They may even believe their own stink.) But it stands to be worst than Trump. In fact, the post-"revolution" stands to be a Stalin-esque Handmaid's Tale place that will make us beg for Trump to be back. The U.S. will probably look a lot more like the old Soviet Union than anyone will like. However, all these government services will keep the kids poor and "wave-slave" strung out as possible, but just comfy enough not to do anything about it.

Finally (and I may be be completely underestimating the intelligence and/or awareness of the common American here), the state response so far on COVID-19 has been far more decisive than the federal. Even here in WV, people aren't sure about Trump anymore. But they love old Jim Justice whose ability to string words together to form a complete and/or rational thought is minimal at best. It's foolish to think that people are going to turn against their local officials, particularly out here in the sticks where a) the virus has yet to hit as badly, b) those officials (unlike Trump) are using every resource available to provide relief, and c) people are completely distrustful of federal control under the best of circumstances.

Again, we may not have seen this person, but there's somebody out there who's going to use the power of Jesus and righteousness to unite poor rural young and middle-aged Americans and urban millennial/Gen Z-ers. They will be the ones to set up an autocracy that you and I will think horrifying.

In a way, we're both arguing the same thing. Except I'm using my old Bush43 Patriot Act argument that Trump has teed up the ball for the next dictator, the *smart* dictator, to come in and hole-in-one the real dystopia.



*Everybody's fucking homework is to watch Cromwell, which if the connection isn't already clear, uses the same font for it's titles as Ilsa: She-Devil of the SS.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 02:30:28 PM by RottingCorpse »

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2020, 02:46:53 PM »
The English Civil War is one of those things that didn't really involve the people, it was really just a debate between Parliament and absolute monarchs. Cromwell didn't care for the people any more than Charles did. I don't really see the parallel at all because neither side won the hearts of the people or had any interest in doing so.

I always fall back to the fall of the Republic which we are modeled after -- there the dictators did have to win over the people if they wanted to survive.

So, okay, a coup from within (yes, very Cromwell). My problem her is: WHO? We're ruled by people who all almost comically have one foot in the grave. I keep waiting for Pelosi to turn to dust vampire style. Biden's a chattering monkey with brain damage. Bernie's held up with baling wire and sealing wax.

I guess AOC can lead the revolution. I'd follow her.

But another element of our youth generation -- they aren't really participatory. AOC is an anomaly.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2020, 05:37:10 PM »
I'm shocked you think the English Civil War doesn't apply because I really thought that's what I was describing in my post above with Cromwell-21. Trump has forced himself upon as as will Cromwell-21. These days, you do need a majority consent (or the illusion of one) to move forward. Trump can maybe create the illusion, but he doesn't really have anymore... if he ever really did.

Anyway, shit like what's happening below is why I'm not worried about federal government centralization. Apparently, we're moving towards Hunger Games style districts.

Quote
Northeast governors form group to discuss reopening of region economies
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/492559-northeast-governors-form-group-to-discuss-reopening-of-region-economies

Quote
West Coast governors announce they will create joint plan for reopening economies
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/492562-west-coast-governors-announce-joint-plan-for-reopening-economies

The Feds have 100% dropped the ball here and most States have done an excellent job of picking up the slack. You're in the belly of the beast so it might be harder for you to see, but this crisis has just emboldened regionalization. What may be happening (and this may be the great Russian plan) is insane shit like Cal-Exit and regionalized governance start to become a reality. Again, Trump is incompetent and a narcissist. It's fine when all he has to do is let the capitalist machine run, but in a crisis, the Emperor is shown in all his nakedness.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 11:32:07 AM by RottingCorpse »

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2020, 11:17:57 AM »
Cromwell didn't need or want the people's support, Trump does.

Offline monkey!

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2020, 06:47:36 PM »
To Hell, or Connaught!
There will come a day for every man when he will relish the prospect of eating his own shit. That day has yet to come for me.

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2020, 09:41:39 AM »
Cromwell didn't need or want the people's support, Trump does.


Quote
.The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump’s name be printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, “President Donald J. Trump” will appear on the left side of the payment.

It will be the first time a president’s name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.

Offline monkey!

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2020, 08:59:21 AM »
I wonder how much extra that will cost in ink.
There will come a day for every man when he will relish the prospect of eating his own shit. That day has yet to come for me.

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2020, 10:32:18 AM »
And now the "liberate" protests. Targeting conservative swing states with democrat governors. Hardly subtle, but predictably effective because... Americans do what they're told!

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2020, 05:57:31 PM »
Lots of pieces talking about how it hasn't hit rural and small town America yet where the brunt of these "Reopen America " protests are coming from. The "out of sight, out of mind" mentality is rampant where I live.

Idiots are going to idiot. What can you do?

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2020, 08:32:49 PM »
Lots of pieces talking about how it hasn't hit rural and small town America yet where the brunt of these "Reopen America " protests are coming from. The "out of sight, out of mind" mentality is rampant where I live.

Idiots are going to idiot. What can you do?

Yeah. Fine by me. Let them die. I work at home anyway, so not like this is really all that different than usual.

Offline Nubbins

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2020, 02:05:59 PM »
*plucks banjo thoughtfully*

*tattoo gun buzzes in background*

Y’all are right... states got this shit locked up, man! Boogity boogity let’s go racin!!!
8=o tation

Offline nacho

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2020, 12:19:17 PM »
Here we go!


Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2020, 03:26:50 PM »
You can find support for any crackpot idea on YouTube these days!

Oh and hello everyone!

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Conspiracy Roundup
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2020, 01:40:31 PM »
Reggie! My heart!