Author Topic: Post, you knobs...  (Read 326212 times)

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Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post your wishlist here!
« Reply #2160 on: January 14, 2009, 03:35:32 PM »
Yes!!

Offline nacho

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2161 on: January 14, 2009, 03:37:50 PM »
God.  So what else have I been missing for my whole life?  I can't believe it's been almost 25 years of watching that movie and never seeing that...

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2162 on: January 14, 2009, 04:28:33 PM »
There are a lot of little detail things in that series that you don't notice at first...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/trivia

Offline nacho

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2163 on: January 28, 2009, 07:57:43 PM »
So I figured I had become violently anti-religious and totally intolerant.  Even of the small things, like someone saying "have a blessed day" or "god bless you" while on the phone with idiot customers.

But then a nun said it today over the phone (she's also a shrink) and I didn't flinch.  Because...she's a nun!  I thanked her and was rather warmed inside.

I guess my beef is just with lay people who shout it out from the streetcorners and have god stuff all over the place.  I feel it should be private.  Not talked about, not openly displayed.  No conversion attempts or need to preach/defend.  You just go follow your god and don't bother me with it.  Unless, of course, you are a real preacher from a real religion, or a nun, or whatever.  Then you can talk god because, hell, that's your job.  No problem.

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2164 on: January 29, 2009, 09:36:04 AM »
So what do you do with the idea that:  "Well, my religion is correct.  I feel like my friends and family will spend eternity in anguish if I don't tell them about it."  ?

Offline nacho

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2165 on: January 29, 2009, 09:43:18 AM »
How does that person know that their religion is correct?  Beyond the imaginary or intangible?

I think that's a sign of delusion.  It's exactly the same as being a mad bombing Islamic extremist, and carries the same sin as they do, whether or not that person ever blows up a building.  It's all part of the larger sickness.

One should follow one's god for personal well-being.  If friends and family don't subscribe, then so be it.  It's a question of individual responsibility, and in the same arena as casting stones.  Let he who is without sin and so on.  That's not the message of that story, I know, but the principle applies.  Unless the person preaching is perfect -- or trained in seminary (or equivalent) -- then shut up.




Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2166 on: January 29, 2009, 09:53:56 AM »
Telling someone about your god, because you care about them, is not exactly the same as blowing people up who don't believe in your god.

I could see telling someone that the gays are going to hell as somewhat equivalent to blowing people up in the name of god.  Both come from a dark place of vengeance and misplaced justice and forget about love.

I can't buy the keep it to yourself theory.  Let me make another analogy.  Say you're in the street and a truck is coming and you ignore it.  Should I just stand there and watch you get hit?  I think at some point, I'm going to start shouting at you about the truck.  I may even come into the street and try to move you.  If you have information that is relevant to people that you care about, I think you're obligated to try to use it.  I don't know how to do this very well, but it is an idea that I believe in.

Offline nacho

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2167 on: January 29, 2009, 10:56:05 AM »
But how is that even related?  Saving someone is just basic human nature.  (Well, hopefully.)  Religion is so varied.  How does a person have the right to declare their religion -- out of hundreds -- to be correct and then impose that on people?

I'm not really absolute about it, by the way.  Of course I understand the message, and the purpose behind spreading that message.  And the light stuff is really okay.  I say I'm annoyed by lay people saying "have a blessed day," and I am, but I also know that my intolerance is deeply seated in general personal malaise and self-loathing.  I won't do the black and white devil's advocate thing.  So, deep down, the only problem I have is people who actively preach.  The "you need to find MY god" sort of thing.  The fire and brimstone stuff.  I have nothing really against spreading good will and basic humanity, whether or not it's wrapped up in a religious package.  If a church promotes itself by, say, building houses, or feeding the homeless, or something like that...great!  But the close-talking obey someone else's god shit rattles my cage.

And people who use it as a crutch annoy me.  I suppose the newly converted are the most guilty of this, and the truly incurable lost souls.  You know -- where that's ALL they talk about. 

So dropping the Nacho for a bit.  I hate:

Door to door God salesmen
The newly converted lost souls who have no lives or hope
The streetcorner preachers
The people who judge you based on what you believe (or don't)

I am not bothered by:

Stable, non-violent religious groups
Religious activities that actually do further Humanity, believers or not
Constructive, intelligent religious belief
People who may wear their beliefs as a badge, but aren't judgmental and vindictive and are capable of maintaining healthy relationships with non-believers and other religions




Offline monkey!

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2168 on: January 29, 2009, 11:42:50 AM »
We're all party of the same energy vibration.
There will come a day for every man when he will relish the prospect of eating his own shit. That day has yet to come for me.

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2169 on: January 29, 2009, 12:57:56 PM »
But how is that even related?  Saving someone is just basic human nature.  (Well, hopefully.)  Religion is so varied.  How does a person have the right to declare their religion -- out of hundreds -- to be correct and then impose that on people?

It's related because...shouldn't saving someone's eternity be basic human nature too?  I mean, I know it can't be proved, but if a person has chosen a religion that declares itself correct, how can that person not act on it?  It's not dissimilar to someone who believes the sky is falling.  You may say that's moronic, but to that person...it's truth.  So they are acting on (their own) truth...it has nothing to do with rights.  Nothing gives them the right to declare their religion correct, but it's not really very relevant to my point, if they believe it to be correct.

I appreciate the end of what you wrote and mostly agree with it.

Offline nacho

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2170 on: January 29, 2009, 01:01:42 PM »
But if someone believes the sky is falling, they're crazy.  Whether or not they believe they are correct, the facts are against them.

Offline monkey!

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2171 on: January 29, 2009, 01:12:52 PM »
Christianity is the most obnoxious of all religions.
There will come a day for every man when he will relish the prospect of eating his own shit. That day has yet to come for me.

Offline Nubbins

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2172 on: January 29, 2009, 01:14:55 PM »
While I see Reggie's point, I'm not sure I agree that saving someone from being hit by a speeding truck is the same thing as trying to save their souls through the word of God.  

Saving someone from being run over makes no assumption about that person's own personal philosophies.  Saving someone from being flattened by a truck merely keeps them alive a bit longer.  What makes me resent people who would solicit God to me is the assumptions they are making about me when they do it.  They are assuming that I just don't understand or that I just haven't thought about it enough, when the reality is that my opinions of God and organized religion have been formed over years of serious thought and personal experience with the church.
8=o tation

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2173 on: January 29, 2009, 01:20:15 PM »
Yes, but whether or not they're crazy...if their crazy is limited to that one aspect...you would expect them to operate with the best interest of people they care about, and tell everyone that the sky is falling.

Now, your response would probably be, "Okay, thanks, you're crazy."  And that's fine.  

I'm simply saying that if you DO believe someone is in danger (eternal or otherwise), and don't act on it in some way...I'd say you're being somewhat inhumane.  But maybe that is too far into the crazy...

And Nubbins...I would hope that those people would be willing to listen to you when you say that you have thought about the points that they're raising.  At the same time, I would say that it's probably hard for them to stop pushing, because they think you're making a horrible mistake.

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: Post, you knobs...
« Reply #2174 on: January 29, 2009, 01:22:24 PM »
Christianity is the most obnoxious of all religions.

If you believe it's wrong, I can see that.  It's one of the only ones that specify one way to the good afterlife.  If it's correct, though, it's no longer obnoxious, it's just correct.  I know that's not measurable.