Author Topic: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*  (Read 11225 times)

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Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2006, 03:30:45 PM »
I'm saying that plus or minus a few percentage points most of the country thinks he's doing wrong in the name of  the United States, and thank Christ we don't poll on the performance of certain members of the Cabinet.

This is irrelevant.  We're talking about how people felt about the handling of the Florida vote certification in 2000.

- but still not enough for 52% of the voting population -

Who's fault is that?

Also, I think black people count.

Should I have highlighted "enfranchised"?

I think everyone counts, I was making a joke.

I'm not even sure why you bring this up.  What is the difference between the "eligible, registered, enfranchised voting population" and the plain ol' "eligible, registered, voting population"?

Do you think black people are in bondage, or just don't own enough McDonald's stores?

en·fran·chise

   1. To bestow a franchise on.
   2. To endow with the rights of citizenship, especially the right to vote.
   3. To free, as from bondage.



Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2006, 03:58:56 PM »
Matt, I'm not sure what you mean by enfranchised either.

Let's be honest, for being the most free and democratic country in the world, our voter turnout sucks.

The Florida thing in 2000 was insane, no doubt about it, but so is politics in America. Al Gore backed off in 2000 which I think made him the bigger man. He said, "Fuck it. What's best for the country." even though he should have won.

All other matters aside. Harris is a dolt, period.

Offline fajwat

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2006, 05:27:38 PM »
Also, I think black people count.

Should I have highlighted "enfranchised"?

I think everyone counts, I was making a joke.

I'm not even sure why you bring this up.  What is the difference between the "eligible, registered, enfranchised voting population" and the plain ol' "eligible, registered, voting population"?

Do you think black people are in bondage, or just don't own enough McDonald's stores?

Ask Katherine Harris what difference it makes to her.  That's the whole point.  I'd bet it doesn't matter at all to her, and that disenfranchising 40k-100k voters was merely partisan, since the targeted  demographic frequently votes for liberals.  "...[T]he Hillsborough County elections supervisor found that 54 percent of the voters targeted by the "scrub" are African-American, in a county where blacks make up 11 percent of the voting population. "

Quoted from another article comprising your elusive "widespread criticism"
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=27&row=1
"If it were up to me I would close Guantánamo not tomorrow but this afternoon... Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America's justice system... and it's causing us far more damage than any good we get from it."

-Colin Powell

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2006, 11:20:15 AM »
Yep, I'd say that this purge was politically motivated (as are most things polititions do).  Locally I see this with a recent attempt to allow expanded voting hours in a few jursidictions...guess which jursidictions were selected in this blue state of maryland?  My point is that, both these things are screwed up but attempt to be rammed through by the party in power.  And things of this nature occur all the time.

I'd also say that Floridians who would like to vote could stop being convicted of felonies.  The purge has little to do with a disproportonate number of black people being denied the vote, and more to do with the percentage of felons who are black people.

Offline fajwat

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 03:31:00 PM »
Oh, yes.  Those evil evil people trying to pass a law to make voting more convenient for a few jurisdictions are worse than people who spend $4mil of taxpayer money to illegally remove racially targetted registered voters right to vote.  So much worse.

Laws aren't perfect, and a felony in one state might be absurdly mundane in another.  Many of the problems were Floridians who's name was convicted of a felony in another state.  Reportedly, people with common black names (like PG county's executive "Jack Johnson") were dropped from voter rolls -- without any notice and without having comitted any felonies anywhere.  Their first notice was when they were turned away from the polls, which is why we have since passed a law requiring that "provisional ballots" be available.
"If it were up to me I would close Guantánamo not tomorrow but this afternoon... Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America's justice system... and it's causing us far more damage than any good we get from it."

-Colin Powell

Offline Tatertots

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 03:54:04 PM »
Removing an eligible vote is a far worse sin than adding a felon's vote, if you ask me.

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2006, 04:01:46 PM »
Oh, yes.  Those evil evil people trying to pass a law to make voting more convenient for a few jurisdictions are worse than people who spend $4mil of taxpayer money to illegally remove racially targetted registered voters right to vote.  So much worse.

Or you could re-word to slant the other way:

"Those evil evil people trying to pass a law to exclude certain jurisdictions from early voting privileges..."

I didn't say it was worse.  My point is, whenever one party is in power, there will be some flexing of political muscle that trends toward abuse.

Laws aren't perfect, and a felony in one state might be absurdly mundane in another.  Many of the problems were Floridians who's name was convicted of a felony in another state.  Reportedly, people with common black names (like PG county's executive "Jack Johnson") were dropped from voter rolls -- without any notice and without having comitted any felonies anywhere.  Their first notice was when they were turned away from the polls, which is why we have since passed a law requiring that "provisional ballots" be available.

Agree.  There are definitely big problems with how these purges have been and are used.  I think there are problems with "provisional ballots" also.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 04:04:13 PM by Reginald McGraw »

Offline Matt

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2006, 04:34:25 PM »
So that statement about felons - where you insinuated that at least 40,000 black people in Florida are felons - is grossly wrong?

Offline Reginald McGraw

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2006, 04:56:51 PM »
Reading back through, I have a hard time identifying a statement about felons that insinuates at least 40,000 black people in FL are felons.

I have said that not being a felon makes it easier to vote.

I have also tried to assert that purging voter roles of felons is not racist simply because it disproportionately affects one race over others.  In fact, there are a disproportionate number of felons who are black people compared to racial proportions in the general population.

I bring this up because the article Fajwat posted contained a lot of: Holy crap!  Half the people excluded were black?!?  This is not rocket science when we are dealing with a racially skewed prison population.

But none of this alleviates the responsibility to stop false positive hits on the felonometer.  If people were and are screwed out of their right to vote...let's fix it.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2006, 04:59:03 PM »
If people were and are screwed out of their right to vote...let's fix it.

I think we all agree on this point, no?

Offline fajwat

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Re: *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!* *REE!*
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2006, 11:17:56 PM »
If people were and are screwed out of their right to vote...let's fix it.

I think we all agree on this point, no?

Yes.  Which is exactly what Katherine Harris is "widely criticized" (although Greg Palast is grinding his axe) for not doing while she had the correct information and the supervisory power.  Okay, one more link and then I'm gonna go cry all over again for our democracy.

http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122
"If it were up to me I would close Guantánamo not tomorrow but this afternoon... Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America's justice system... and it's causing us far more damage than any good we get from it."

-Colin Powell