Author Topic: Superhero Movies  (Read 134662 times)

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Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #300 on: August 07, 2014, 05:26:38 PM »
GotG is the first movie in a long time that I feel compelled to see... So I plan to catch the first showing tomorrow morning (as I...uh...work from home).

My default is always to see the normal movie and not fucking 3D... But it looks like one of those movies that's sort of made for 3D. What's the verdict?

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #301 on: August 08, 2014, 12:40:29 AM »
No 3D. We did 2D and are better for it.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #302 on: August 08, 2014, 03:30:21 PM »

Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #303 on: August 08, 2014, 05:15:25 PM »
So...GotG. It is a live action version of the Lego Movie! It's full of tropes and I have some serious complaints.

That said...it's also sublimely beautiful and the most human and simple and tender superhero movie I've seen. So I forgive the dozens of problems.

I also appreciate the endless in-jokes during the end credits.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #304 on: August 09, 2014, 02:40:12 AM »
I want to hear your complaints. I have them on a base structural level, but like you I forgave them all due to the emotional "wow" factor.

Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #305 on: August 09, 2014, 03:44:57 AM »
I want to hear your complaints. I have them on a base structural level, but like you I forgave them all due to the emotional "wow" factor.

The structural level... It's way overcrowded. So much so that I couldn't focus on the bad guy at all. I feel like the takeaway was that Thanos is the real bad guy and we'll get to him in the sequels, so Ronin hardly matters except for some immediate threat that they have to deal with. This disassociation with the characterization was especially noticeable when Drax makes the (joke?) that it's really Thanos he wants to kill anyway. Really? After all of that? (His general response to Ronin's demise is blase anyway...which is weird. Rocket has more anger and emotion during the showdown than the man who's dedicated his life to that showdown.)

We have such big supporting personalities -- from Peter S's Kitchen Gun to the underused and totally two-dimensional Nova Prime, that I found myself not caring if the Nova planet was destroyed or not...and wasn't 100% clear why any of our people cared, except that Ronin was an asshole. The cheesy attempts to make us care -- wide eyed babies in mother's arms caught in the middle of yet another planetary-level catastrophe -- was eye-rolling.

Oh, and, yes -- ultimate catastrophe! Now the formula for every single Marvel movie. Just once, I want to see the Great Apocalypse get nuked in orbit, Fifth Element-style. It was made worse here not only because I didn't care, but because these were all unexplored characters. New York? Okay. Thor's planet? Okay, because Hopkins and Elba give us uber-gravitas. The Nova planet? Our brief glimpses of Glenn Close being, for the large part, ineffectual, and the stuffy colonialists working for her, almost make you wonder if Ronin is right.

Then we get the complicated relationships that may have been a thrill for people who read the comics... Their backstories almost felt like catching-you-up-with-the-comics, and seemed clunky. Zoe Saldana and her evil robot sister were the worst part there. All too convenient. I guess the core is that they both hate Thanos and want revenge for we're not sure what... We get Saldana's background, and the robot says "look what he did to me," but it all seems a bit wonky since, no matter what Ronin does, they know that Thanos has at least one other infinity stone himself, right? And The Collector knows. And everyone who saw Thor 2 knows. So what we get, repeated a few times over at a few different levels, is a "curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!" Oh, and Ronin's betrayal of Thanos is...met with stony silence and then a cut connection? No retaliation or reaction? Why was Thanos in this? Just to give the bad guy who already had clear motivation some motivation?

I also think we trust Saldana too quickly... She goes from impossible threat to maybe fuckworthy to worth the absolute sacrifice in, what, 48 hours? Sacrificing yourself for her was this weird too-early-in-the-script redemption moment for two characters who either didn't really need it or didn't make sense having it at that time. The big problem there is that we *do* get that moment, during the showdown, which means the power of that scene (Saldana/memory of mom) is just slightly empty. 

In fact, due to the overcrowding, the only successful character arc was Groot --simply because he stayed true to who he was throughout.

Michael Rooker's team suffered terribly from the overcrowding and became nothing more than mere convenience. They're all over the map, aren't they? It almost feels like I could mentally hear the director screaming, "CUE ROOKER!" every time.

Then we get the Collector, who also feels shoe-horned in there. He's like Mr. Universe in Serenity, isn't he? This all powerful yet weirdly vulnerable guy, who has some backstory that we don't know, and whose assistant chooses this moment to fuck everything up because he's a bad boss. Also a moment of convenient-ultimate-superweapon-fickleness, eh? Grabbing it in the Collector's lab results in "we're gonna need a shitload of new screen doors" but grabbing it from Ronin results in "apocalypse #79" but using it to embed in your sledgehammer results in "makes robot girl horny." I guess it all depends on who grabs it, eh? From little slave to big bad guy to Someone More Than Human and his buddies.

But, then, this is the thing that simply has to touch the ground to destroy the entire planet, and they literally spend the whole movie tossing it around like a baseball.  The only person who ever seems worried about the larger threat of the stone is Glenn Close, briefly, and the only one who has the reaction normal people would have when confronted with the stone is Rocket when they retrieve it from the blast at the Collector's lab. Everyone else's motivation really is "Ronin's an asshole."

I think they could have done with the knock-off Chronicles of Riddick theme and kept it small. Rooker in the not-quite-so-terrible bounty hunter role getting in more trouble than not, the bad guy who's actually a small fry in the final reveal... Get us engaged with the survival of our team, and not the survival of  ten billion people. The plan was for a sequel -- the whole movie is setting it up from very early on -- so why not give us a slow reveal of all this other stuff? It's the same as the too-many-villains syndrome.

I miss Star Wars, I guess. Yes, okay, we have the planet destroying threat. Everyone's gotten that part down perfectly in modern sci-fi... But they're forgetting the two hours spent on the deeply personal journey of a small handful of characters (speaking of perfectly executed final showdown redemption moments!) that was required before they could save  the universe. 

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #306 on: August 09, 2014, 12:17:45 PM »
I can argue with very little of that.

Yet I loved it. Explain that. Did Chris Pratt, the tree, and the raccoon simply charm the pants off of us.

And you know that evil robot sister was Karen Gillian, yes?

Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #307 on: August 09, 2014, 12:44:57 PM »


Quote
Yet I loved it. Explain that. Did Chris Pratt, the tree, and the raccoon simply charm the pants off of us.

Same problem here!

Quote
And you know that evil robot sister was Karen Gillian, yes?

Ha! Oh my god! And I spent the whole movie looking for her! Wow. The only way to hide her is to shave her and paint her.


Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #308 on: August 09, 2014, 01:11:20 PM »
Oh, and, yes -- ultimate catastrophe! Now the formula for every single Marvel movie. Just once, I want to see the Great Apocalypse get nuked in orbit, Fifth Element-style. It was made worse here not only because I didn't care, but because these were all unexplored characters. New York? Okay. Thor's planet? Okay, because Hopkins and Elba give us uber-gravitas. The Nova planet? Our brief glimpses of Glenn Close being, for the large part, ineffectual, and the stuffy colonialists working for her, almost make you wonder if Ronin is right.

I think they could have done with the knock-off Chronicles of Riddick theme and kept it small. Rooker in the not-quite-so-terrible bounty hunter role getting in more trouble than not, the bad guy who's actually a small fry in the final reveal... Get us engaged with the survival of our team, and not the survival of  ten billion people. The plan was for a sequel -- the whole movie is setting it up from very early on -- so why not give us a slow reveal of all this other stuff? It's the same as the too-many-villains syndrome.

I miss Star Wars, I guess. Yes, okay, we have the planet destroying threat. Everyone's gotten that part down perfectly in modern sci-fi... But they're forgetting the two hours spent on the deeply personal journey of a small handful of characters (speaking of perfectly executed final showdown redemption moments!) that was required before they could save  the universe. 

This is one of my major beefs about superhero movies in general and the Marvel movies in particular. Some of these characters scream for an intimate story. I always use the example of Spider-Man and the villain Kraven the Hunter. (Kraven is Russian big game hunter obsessed with "hunting" Spider-Man. Very "The Most Dangerous Game." In the comics, after he finally defeats Spider-man, buries him for two weeks, and replaces him, he blows his head off. "Kraven's Last Hunt" is arguably the best Spider-Man story ever told.) A Kraven movie wouldn't need to be "OMG Spidey must save NYC!" It would be a small intimate story that only involved the battle for the soul (and life) of our main hero. The Batman oeuvre is also filled with these small scale stories. They'd cost half as much to make and still make a ha-zillion dollars. Yet each subsequent superhero film tries to  top the next.

It's one reason why Captain America 2 (and to a lesser extent, Thor 2) works so well. They're insular stories dealing with the development of pour main characters.

Also, it takes out the teeth of the GREATEST THREAT EVER in their big team up movie when the destruction of the world is at stake in every single movie.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #309 on: October 14, 2014, 12:10:32 PM »
Robert Downey Jr. Joined Captan America 3, but also recently expressed many of my concerns about the future of the superhero film.

http://www.blastr.com/2014-10-13/robert-downey-jr-feeling-superhero-fatigue-are-you

Quote
Robert Downey Jr. is feeling superhero fatigue -- are you?

Even though Iron Man made him a superstar, Robert Downey Jr. is hinting that the whole superhero genre might be running its course.

In a new interview with England's Telegraph to promote his just-opened film The Judge, Downey was asked about Iron Man 4, to which he gave the same kind of cryptic, contradictory answer he's given in other recent interviews, replying, "Not that I'm aware of" when asked about both the possibility of his doing a fourth Iron Man film and the franchise coming to an end.

Asked if this meant that Tony Stark would only appear in Avengers movies from now on, Downey said, "Avengers was another opportunity, but they’re not talking about Iron Man 4. I was kind of bombed out to tell the truth, but maybe they’ve got bigger fish to fry and I trust their overall vision. The funny thing about these genre movies is you’d think they were national secrets.”

But then Downey took it further, suggesting that audiences may, in fact, be getting tired of the entire genre: "Honestly, the whole thing is just showing the beginning signs of fraying around the edges. It’s a little bit old ... last summer there were five or seven different [superhero films] out. I feel that they are critiqued by a different metric to any other movie. Right, [that metric is box office], but also they are more forgiven because they operate on a different frequency. It’s like a bunch of really good dancers and you’re looking for the one who keeps changing her leg warmers. They make a lot of money.”

OK ... I'm not quite sure about the "leg warmers" comment, but if you've ever heard Downey speak in person, that's sort of typical of the moving-target way he answers questions. His first point, however, was clear -- he believes that superhero fatigue may be setting in.

Could that really be the case, though? The biggest domestic box-office success of 2014 was Guardians of the Galaxy, based on an obscure Marvel comic book, while Captain America: The Winter Soldier did superb business and the X-Men franchise had its highest-grossing entry yet. Even the relatively disappointing The Amazing Spider-Man 2 still took in more than $700 million worldwide. And next May's The Avengers: Age of Ultron is as sure a bet as a movie studio could have.

Is Downey really talking about himself? He's played Tony Stark five times now (including Age of Ultron), and while he's quite aware of what the role has meant to his career and life, he remains a brilliant actor who no doubt wants to do other things with his craft.

Sadly (or not, because frankly it's not a very good film), The Judge opened this past weekend to a very lukewarm response (just $13 million at the domestic box office), making it the second straight non-franchise movie starring Downey, after The Soloist, to fail to draw a large audience. It would be ironic if Downey's only major success comes from his superhero movies just as he is perhaps edging away from them.

There are 30-plus superhero or comics-based movies coming out in the next five or six years. Do you think fatigue is setting in? Are you getting tired of the genre? Or is Downey just looking for his escape hatch?

Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #310 on: October 20, 2014, 11:35:26 AM »
Robert Downey Jr. Joined Captan America 3, but also recently expressed many of my concerns about the future of the superhero film.


Well.... Too bad!

http://toybox.io9.com/a-timeline-for-your-next-6-years-of-comic-book-movies-1648360011/+riamisra

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #311 on: October 20, 2014, 11:43:39 AM »
That graphic alone is a symptom of the plague that will kill the superhero film, or at least vastly change it.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 01:33:33 PM by RottingCorpse »

Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #312 on: October 20, 2014, 11:47:12 AM »
It made my heart cry.

Offline RottingCorpse

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #313 on: October 22, 2014, 10:35:11 PM »
Yes, the end of the superhero movie is coming... but not yet.


Offline nacho

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #314 on: October 23, 2014, 07:31:22 AM »
I wonder if, years from now, as superhero movies and TV dominate every corner of the universe, we'll still say "the end is coming!" before every post.